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Author Topic: Blue Spools
Burton Sundquist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 318
From: Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted November 11, 2017 12:37 AM      Profile for Burton Sundquist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...I have recently received a few features from a collection that were mounted on what was described as "1600 ' reels". They are a powder blue color and do appear to hold 1600'. These spools are of very poor quality and have warped. The poor film shrieks out while using rewinds to apply Filmguard. They arrived in Elmo 1200' spool boxes but I Can't believe Elmo would have produced these. They are also a shade larger in diameter and may not be suitable for all 1200' capacity machines. This issue may have been dealt with in a previous thread, I haven't bothered to research. I would only like to know who made them. Sorry, I usually post positive stuff...

[ November 11, 2017, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Burton Sundquist ]

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Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

Posts: 447
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Jan 2010

- posted November 11, 2017 12:55 AM      Profile for Oliver F. R. Feld     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think this could be the so called TAYLOREEL.
If so, it had been produced in the USA

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Burton Sundquist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 318
From: Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Registered: Feb 2017

- posted November 11, 2017 07:52 AM      Profile for Burton Sundquist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Oliver, Yes they are Tayloreels. The smaller hub version is what I have. Nice idea but the plastic used is too flimsy and the reels warp very easily. I have a few of their regular 1200' spools and have no problems. Another good one is made by Fuji, quite like a Bonum spool.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 11, 2017 08:53 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe they are for use with the tail out,so you first rewind them on you Elmo metal housewheels for giving a show, and store them up on this inveriour reels for storage again, with the tail out?

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 11, 2017 07:42 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That will work if the blue reels are 1200 foot filled. Remember that the Elmo reel is not 1600 foot!

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 12, 2017 04:44 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ahh, your right.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 13, 2017 09:55 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be better to have all films rewound to heads up during storage.

If the head was stored around the hub of the Taylor reel (the light blue one) it could over time, produce too much curl and thus you might have film jams during auto load.

While I'm at it, I will also suggest do you know when the reel is properly filled?

Some of you might say you are not having any issues. So far that is luck. The problems do happen. Especially running machines with rubber belts, such as the ST 1200 series.

Many of us fill right to the outer edge diameter. This is wrong.

Look at some of the Taylor or Goldberg reels with the footage indicators printed on the flanges.

You will observe the UNDERLINE directly BELOW the footage mark.

Observe that using a 1200 foot reel as an example this indication is about 1/2 inch from the outside diameter.

This allows for safe take up during projection. Where there is film edge contact to the inside flange, this often results in loose take up, and the film will "droop" on the bottom of the reel during rotation.

Be smart - follow the guides - and avoid spillage.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 13, 2017 10:43 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Funny that you mentioned this.
I have the 2x 400 Battlestar Galactica and 2x 400 Mission Galactica replaced on a 1200 Elmo Reel, with just around 8mm to spare. I have a Nice metal can for it so it looks like a Special Edition of the Battlestar Galactica film.
The reels where not so filled, so I wanted to see if it fits, but I did not yet cement the films together, because I'm not sure if I go this way.
I do have the origenal film boxes too.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 15, 2017 07:14 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is easy to do basically do you simply do the math for hundred times three or 600×2 equals footage capacity

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 16, 2017 03:21 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's because many 400" films are much more filled than the Battlestar Galactica's, so that's why I tried all 4 of them.
When I was finished with the third reel, there was a lot of space, but the fourth is just a little too much.
I did not yet sementy them together and I have to take off the tails and Takeups, so maybe it fits better after that.

I also have a few 3x400 films, like The Warriors that I received on a 240" reel.

I still have to put a nice picture on the can of this movie, but it kinda looks like a Galactica Special Edition, as the metal DVD Box release a few years back.

-

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 16, 2017 07:45 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems you know what your risks are, so becareful and enjoy the movies.

Are those reels of film acetate or polyester (also known as "mylar)? It is very easy to know the difference.

Hold the reel up to a light and look through it.

If it appears dark black it is acetate.

If it appears gold or yellow in color it is mylar.

Also

Acetate will break very easy in your fingers. Mylar will twist and tangle.

Acetate is thicker, heavier.

Mylar is lighter weight and thinner.

Mylar will NOT hold glue for cement splices. You will most certainly need a tape splicer.

You can combine them as long as the prints are in very good condition.

Prints with perforation damage will not rewind or take up with a smooth surface. It will be rough to touch and by sight. It can also be very lumpy - that is it does not rewind perfectly round on the reel. It will appear to have a "bump" as it spins.

Another way to know it is a lumpy print:

You should know of vinyl records from long ago and popular today before CD and cassette. You could put a 45rpm record down and it had a larger center hole. It required an adapter to play correctly.

Some people without an adapter would just try to center the record. If bumped easily it would go off center, and have really bad WOW or unstable sound.

So a rewound lumpy print would look much like an off center 45 rpm record without the adapter.

Lumpy prints will play OK you just have to carefully watch footage capacity, and takeup/rewind when you use those options.

CG

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 17, 2017 12:44 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for that information.

Looking to the side of the reel against the light it looks gold.
Is Mylar better than Acetate?
I guesh most of are homemade movies were acetate than, because my fathrr did cement them.
I remember we had a reel of homemade film that could not be done with cement, but the quallity was less. Overly lighted.

I have Tarzan prints on a 1200 reel that indeed rewind very bad.
So I wind it back and did it again by holding my hand slightly on the reel to get a tighter wind.
Is this bad for the projector?
I use a GS1200 MKIII, but I also did this with my Bauer T610, with an overly filled 240" reel.

PS. Here's a photo of the reel filled with only 3 parts of 400".
To me it seems kinda empty.
-

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 19, 2017 01:01 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is going good. I am enjoying the fact we are exchanging information.

Projectors tend to rewind sloppy and loose. It would be better when you can do it, to have a table with hand crank rewinds so that you can do all the rewinding by hand.

Of course I have been a theater projectionist for 35 years it is only natural for me to plug the way we worked it for many years. A home made rewind bench for editing work is a good idea. Best if the working conditions are as follows:

(building your rewind table)
Table top 3/4 inch thick nice and strong
paint it flat white
have an overhead ceiling light
16 inches x 36 inches will be good
and have the table top about 38 inches off the floor
with bookcase shelves underneath for general storage

Note: This working area requires the user to be standing most of the time.

If it were me, I would add at the start of the reel either three trailers or a cartoon. But no more than 200 feet.

I agree the reel in the picture is slightly under filled and yes it can hold more.

But I am also a firm believer in that underlined footage marker, especially nearing the outside edge of the reel near max capacity.

Nice projector by the way. I own 6 of them. Three are repaired and running reasonably well. I plan to get the others fixed.

CG

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 20, 2017 05:10 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
6 of them, WOW.
Are they converted as well?
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011795

I taped them together without all the tails so it's one long movie.
Now after rewinding with my hand touching the back reel, I have aroud a cm left, so that looks better.

Only the first Battlestar Galactica is very redish, while the second film Mission Galactica is really good colored with deep blacks.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 20, 2017 11:44 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A rewind bench is a very good idea I highly recommend it

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 20, 2017 04:54 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The one I have don't fit 1200 reels.
Are they still easy to come by, that can take 1200 reels?

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 20, 2017 05:09 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes.

Find one for 16mm add brass adapters stepping up to super 8

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 21, 2017 04:11 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ahh thanks, I will do that.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 21, 2017 10:38 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is my bench.

The rewinds are 35mm with adapters.

Any rewind from Neumade Products should be good.

Make sure the left side has an adjustable brake along with the crank.

Motor drive is an optional idea.

-

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 21, 2017 11:16 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WOW, THATS A REWINDER!!!
Sold to Matthieu. [Big Grin]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 21, 2017 01:33 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35mm-NEUMA DE-Film-Rewind-Set-Model-Dynamic-Very-Good-Condition/262782482714?hash=item3d2f0e791a:g:yOwAAOSwnHZYZCHf

This is a good example of what you could use.

The last photo it is hard to see the spindle lock that holds the reel on. It might be a broken shaft. So make certain you ask your questions before making the purchase. The shafts are easy to change - but very hard to find replacement stock. It is possible the shaft is turned the opposite direction but it is very hard to tell in the last photo if it is right or not.

Brass adapters will fit the 35mm shafts.

The 35mm shafts will also handle 16mm reels should you ever fall in to that category of film collecting.

These are 2,000 foot capacity and will be bolted to the bench top.

They are like mine for gearing. Only the capacity is less. (Mine are 35mm 6,000 foot)

One idea is to visit your local cinema and speak with management. Ask who does the projection booth service, even though it could be digital by now. Obtain the information of the service company for booth equipment - then locate a supplier near you. Explain your situation, and you could have a source for parts and/or rewinds ready to go.

In my experience, booth service companies save little parts from older analog projection equipment, because they know there are people who still require it. So be patient this will not be over night success - you will find it eventually.

Here is another Ebay auction. These are JUST LIKE MINE. They are a better price even though they are more money. The spindle locks are good and these are ready for your bench:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/35mm-Neumade-Rewinds-for-6000-foot-reels-Model-X-3-Grey-Finish-/253247664186

Google: Neumade film rewinds
Then click IMAGES
Select a model that has brake on the left side
and cranks on both sides

The brass adapters are not included.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 21, 2017 04:52 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have rewinder from my father with differend adapters, because he also filmed on 16mm, but the 1200 reels are too big.
Not sure if the adapters can be used for the new rewinders.
I have to examen them.

The tip for checking at the local cinema's is indeed a fun adventure to start with.
If not I'll take my chances with ebay.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 27, 2017 01:26 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me know how you are doing with this project I am happy to give you advice on servicing those rewinds when the time comes

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

- posted November 27, 2017 05:00 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you.
I'll let you know.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 01, 2017 06:17 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Matthieu

Not to change the subject, but I want you to read my post here in this same area, "Tired of Swapping Cables."

If you don't know about this already you may find it interesting....

Cheers

Chip Gelmini

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