8mm Forum: Regular 8mm Sound???

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Topic: Regular 8mm Sound???

Buck Bito
Junior
Posts: 18
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2011

posted January 12, 2018 04:33 PM

Here's the Calvin with a Goldberg Standard-8 1200 (rear) and a Tayloreel Super-8 1200 (front):

We have it on display in our shop along with the Cirse and Fairchild.

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movettefilm.com

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 13, 2018 07:06 AM

Buck, I have received several photos of the Eumig S709 that show the marking on the case for the loops of Super and Regular 8, the second photo shows the loop of a regular 8 film. I hope this answers your question.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 13, 2018 11:26 AM

Neat projector Buck! Very needful for long features like, "Birth of a Nation" [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

posted January 13, 2018 04:14 PM

Dominique- sound came to 8 mm in 1960.The tri-gauge Heurtiers had sound for 9-5 and 16. It is in 1959 that the problems of applying a sound stripe to the narrow 8mm film were solved and projectors started appearing.If Heurtier added soundheads for standard 8 in their three gauge projectors,this would be after 1960.In the beginning,they manifactured a separate amplifier and a big heavy soundhead designed so that the silent projector and the soundhead sat/fit on the amplifier.Their later projectors were of course in one piece. When the first std/super projectors were made,manifacturers did advice buyers that standard 8 would not play in sync with the sound.When Eumig manifactured a second gate with the longer lower part so that the film made a longer loop of 56 frames everything became ok.
Osi- I know that 8mm has been around since the thirties but we are talking about sound 8mm here!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 13, 2018 05:19 PM

Thanks for those precisions, Panayotis. As said before, there are few informations about that on the net.

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Dominique

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Charles Peich
Junior
Posts: 11
From: Geneva, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 14, 2018 09:42 AM

Buck, congratulations on owning the Movie-Mite/Calvin, Cirse and Fairchild Reg 8 magnetic sound projectors! I have the Fairchild projector in my collection. Actually, when I was a kid I had the Fairchild system - camera and projector. I also had some Castle Films Reg 8 sound films. They were the Reg 8 versions of Castle's 16mm sound films, the ones that were on the 400ft 16mm reels.

Some time ago while researching the history of 16mm mag sound, I ran across this article about the Movie-Mite / Calvin 8mm mag projector. The one you have. I do recall seeing this projector at the Calvin facility in Kansas City, MO.

This article was published in August 1952 and was written by the Chief Engineer of Movie-Mite. I believe this was the 1st Reg 8 mag sound projector with playback and recording abilities designed from the ground up to make it to the market in the USA. Or, at least the 1st with a large reel capacity.

Forum, if these pics don't enlarge well enough to read, PM me and I'll send you my original files.

Or, this is the link to the article:
https://archive.org/details/moviemakers27amat
go to page 202.

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Charlie

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 14, 2018 10:00 AM

Have to say Robert, my Brother bought an 810D HQS back in 74, no problems with loading standard 8 but we did have awful trouble with the machine slowing down to a virtual stand still halfway through a reel, it was sent back to Hendersons time and time again. In the end the guy in the shop we bought it in Plymouth told us to take it back in so he could see the fault himself, after at least four returns from the warranty repair, (a six week wait with each return), the local shop guy finally saw the fault, sent it off, and guess what? It came back with same fault!!!
They eventually gave us a new machine, in this day and age we wouldn't have to wait for such poor service before it was put right but it did put me off Eumigs for life. My Brother swears by them, and i do admit they are very kind to film and do have excellent sound quality, if you can put up with the hum.
Standard 8 films is what we started on but never had that many sound films, a couple of features and a couple of L & Hardys and a few other shorts but thats it. The image quality was always very good as was the sound. One of our feature films was a Robert Stack western called Great day in the morning, the image was unbelievable, it looked like a Technicolour film, it was that good, regretfully the sound sound was awful and muffled in places, never seen this film for sale since. [Wink]

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 14, 2018 10:40 AM

Hi Tom, I bought mine in 75, and only had to replace the sound head which seemed to cost half the price of the projector. The only thing I don't like is that the head comes into contact with silent film, and as I had more silent film for a time, it put wear on the head. I think on later models you could project films without the head coming into contact. A friend of mine at the time bought an earlier Eumig model and the soundhead was still in position when the machine was put into reverse; with the 810D it was lifted from the film. Other than that I have had no problems whatsoever. In the cold weather it used to run slowly to begin with then gradually picked up speed.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 14, 2018 11:08 AM

Charles, thank's for posting that most interesting article. I had no idea that 8mm mag stripe projectors went all the way back to 1952. In Europe they did not appear until the late 50's, so the US companies like Calvin and Fairchild were way ahead of the game.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

posted January 15, 2018 11:45 AM

I admit it is the first time I lerned that 8mm sound was announced in 1952 in America. However the 1953 volume does not mention anything new and unfortunately it is the most recent scanned. I would be interested to read from later consecutive years.

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Buck Bito
Junior
Posts: 18
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2011

posted January 15, 2018 06:48 PM

Hi Charles,
Thank you so much for posting that article above.

quote:
This article was published in August 1952 and was written by the Chief Engineer of Movie-Mite. I believe this was the 1st Reg 8 mag sound projector with playback and recording abilities designed from the ground up to make it to the market in the USA. Or, at least the 1st with a large reel capacity.

I have had no manual for my Calvin and it's great to have a photograph of the threading to confirm my assumptions. I was reluctant to trust my threading because it provides 44 and 49 frame offsets from the gate. I provide two offsets because my model has 2 mag heads where I assume the first (rear) is Record at 44 frames and the second (front) is Playback at 49 frames. So neither head is at what was adopted as standard 8mm magnetic sound offset (56 frames) using that threading pattern.

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movettefilm.com

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted January 27, 2018 11:45 PM

Here is a youtube video of a 1959 Fairchild projector in action....runs & sounds great...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkulpe1LUoA

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 28, 2018 10:18 AM

What a beauty! You've got to love the design of this machine. [Smile]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

posted January 28, 2018 12:14 PM

I still would like to see catalogues or ads for pre-1959 sound-on-film 8mm films!

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