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Author Topic: HID Xenpow conversion for Elmo GS-1200
Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted February 02, 2018 07:27 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm starting this thread to compile tips and tricks for making this revolutionary conversion for our projectors.
From what I've read, you need the lamp, the ballast and a modification to the internal fan to run all the time. The Elmo has an internal dowser, so I assume it's OK, but there are some questions in the air:

- Is the internal dowser enough or does it need modification?
- Is it better to install the ballast inside the projector? In this case, any recommendations are very welcome.
- Does the lamp needs some distance correction? How much?

Any advice about these or other issues is very welcome!

--------------------
Marc

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5838
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted February 02, 2018 08:42 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The dowser on the GS-1200 is for still projection, therefore it has perforations to let sufficient light through to view stills. As the HID Xenpow stays on all the time the dowser needs to be altered to give a permanent removal of light.

The wiring to the still device will need to be altered in some way to provide separate control of the dowser.

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Maurice

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted February 02, 2018 02:10 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the reply, Maurice.
Do you know which material would be good for blocking the light completely?

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Marc

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5838
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted February 02, 2018 02:44 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Possibly a small piece of aluminium, such material is easy to work with.

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Maurice

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted February 02, 2018 03:04 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks a lot. I'll check it out.

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Marc

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 330
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted February 03, 2018 05:01 AM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Norton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To simply try out this conversion I ran the lamp wires, with a push fit connector to the ballast, through the bottom of the projector up & in to the lamphouse. Swapped the lamp over & simply plugged in. I didn't have any problems running a few shows like this.
Although it deservedly gets a lot of credit for its very high light out put, for me the colour temperature is too off. Great for black & White's or red prints. But for my own home films or top colour prints I prefer a GS Xenon or Halogen lamp even though they are not as bright.

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted February 03, 2018 05:44 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's interesting, as the possibility to use the projector with halogen (for recording sound, for example) or HID (for big screenings) sounds very practical.

But I've read that you have to move the lamp position when using the Xenpow, so perhaps you're loosing some quality when doing it this way.

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Marc

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 03, 2018 07:24 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Marc

My GS1200 was professionally modified by Bill Parsons and is now fitted with the Xenpow HD150 lamp, with the ballast fitted to the underside of the projector.

The heat filter that swings into place when the projector is stopped or paused is still as originally made - this allows just enough light to illuminate the frame on screen for getting the correct start frame if I want to synch to a DVD.

My GS is an unusual version - made at the very end of the Elmo GS1200 manufacturing run for telecine use, it has an inbuilt 24 / 25fps pulse synch board, and is a playback only machine with no recording facility.

The ballast is fitted to the underside of the machine permanently, and the Elmo lamp holder modified so the Xenpow lamp will fit - this entails removing the Elmo halogen lamp wiring clips and fitting spring clips to hold the Xenpow lamp in place. The lamp holder is also re-positioned to ensure the light beam is even and correctly focused on the frame.

The originally fitted Elmo cooling fan motor is also rewired so it is on permanently and runs at a higher speed. This is essential as the HID lamp is left on all the time so even when the projector is stopped the cooling fan is needed to prevent overheating in the gate.

I have watched over 40 features and many shorts since the mod was done last year and to my eyes the light colour balance is very close to the Elmo GS1200 xenon I used to have - perhaps some lamps will appear slightly different I wont know until another 800 odd hours when I will need to replace mine.

All in all I would rate it as the best modification I have ever had made to any projector - sadly Bill is not currently repairing or modifying projectors due to his health issues but hopefully you will be able to modify your own projector in due course.

Kevin

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted February 03, 2018 09:36 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Seems to me, this is the conversion that should be offered by every projector specialist for the GS1200 and maybe other projectors as well.

I think it will be big bussiness and starts a run to their service

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted February 03, 2018 02:51 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks! That's a great tip, as I also do external sync as well as recording on the sound stripe.
Do you know what model of ballast was installed inside the projector and in which place? I think that with all this info I'll be able to start trying the modification with a technician friend.

Matthieu, absolutely! It's the biggest upgrade you can make to these machines.

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Marc

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted February 06, 2018 04:18 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Marc

Please check your mailbox I will send you a PM message soon.

Kevin

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted March 01, 2018 03:35 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, you've got an answer [Wink] Please, check your inbox.

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Marc

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 01, 2018 05:11 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whoops sorry Marc I missed your original message - will email you later today as promised.

Kevin

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted March 01, 2018 05:38 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bumber. I saw this Topic lifted and was hoping for more developement.

I emailed around, but no company here is really experienced with the HID Xenpow 150 conversion.
Would be great if a technician gains some experience with this conversion here in the Benelux-Germany.

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Thomas Knappstein
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Erwitte, Germany
Registered: Oct 2017


 - posted March 03, 2018 04:20 AM      Profile for Thomas Knappstein   Email Thomas Knappstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello!
can anyone post some Pictures here of this Lamp and how it is mounted into the GS 1200.

Thank you

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5838
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 03, 2018 04:39 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thomas
Here is a picture of the lamp.
I am sorry that I do not know how it fits in an Elmo GS-1200 as mine is in a 16mm Bell & Howell 644.
https://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/xenpow-hid-150-discharge-lamp-4320-p.asp

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Maurice

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 03, 2018 07:17 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Thomas

Here is a picture of the Xenpow HID150 in my GS1200 - I hope this helps you but I will not be expanding further on this modification as all credit for perfecting this on the GS1200 should go to Bill Parsons who is unable to do more at the moment due to illness.

When Bill is able to comment I'm sure he will do so.

Kevin

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5838
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 03, 2018 09:46 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the shield for the lamp's terminals, and the fact that the two wires have been put in some sleeving.

--------------------
Maurice

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted March 03, 2018 11:44 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It looks like it fits the lampholder as it is, but the lamp seems a bit smaller so he used the wires to hold the lamp in place.
Watching the photo, there's no need to move the lamp back?

Now, the fan of my Elmo GS1200 keeps blowing when I shut down the lamp. I have to turn down the power button to get the projector quiet.
I have a MKIII model, that is the base for a Xenon, I think, so probably that's why.

Does this mean I only have to place the lamp and power the lamp outside and it works?
No worries about the cooling?

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted April 16, 2018 08:01 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a few qquestions about the conversion of my GS1200.

- Will this lampholder be usefull to place and hold the Xenpow HID150 as well, in the Elmo?
https://winkel.van-eck.net/lampen/p-4a/LV-0011--lampen.htmlGS1200

- Is the dowser working right on the GS1200 after putting in a Xenpow HID150, without having to change anything.

- If the lamp is Off, I can still hear the ventilator, so do I need to place an extra PC ven?

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted April 16, 2018 12:27 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Matthieu

I am concerned you may be planning to take on this conversion yourself without having the required level of technical expertise or information - as a general guide here is some more info but PLEASE if you are not technically minded you must get someone who is to carry out the mods for you.

1. The Xenpow lamp fits into the original Elmo GS1200 lamp holder - you have to remove all the original lamp terminals and sprung clamp then fit bolts and a stout spring wire exactly as shown in my picture to hold the Xenpow lamp securely in place. Once installed the original black Elmo lamp cover is refitted too.

2. The original GS1200 still picture heat filter provides ample dowsing and comes down into place when the projector is stopped so needs no further modification.

3. The cooling fan needs to be set to run at full speed mode all the time - you will need to study the Elmo GS1200 circuit and wiring diagrams to work out how to do this. No extra cooling fan is needed, just setting the original fan to run at maximum high speed permanently is sufficient.

4. The Xenpow HID lamp needs its own suitable power supply ballast - it cannot be powered by the original GS1200 24v lamp supply. There are a number of versions available and some work better than others - again an experienced electronics technician will be able to help you with this.

If you are unsure of any of the technical aspects described you may be better advised to keep your current Halogen GS1200 as it is and search for an Elmo GS1200 Xenon projector instead - Ian from Perry's Movies has one for sale in the 8mm Forums equipment for sale section for a very fair price at the moment in case you are interested.

Kevin

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted April 16, 2018 12:45 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Kevin.

I did send an eMail to van Eck. Those people really have knowledge of Super8 projectors.
Hopefully they will do the conversion.
Otherwise, I'm going to try it myself.

As a noob, I can always add an extra ven, and wire that from outside.
Also do the Xenpow balast from outside.
Or not?

The Xenpow will have a better result and the projectoir will be much quieter.
Not that I ever witnessed a Xenon, but that is what I've read so far.

Also I do not like the idea of shipping an Elmo GS1200, so I have to go to London.
(Which my wife wont have a problem with, but carying the weight around London till I'm home,...
I'll become Arnold Schwarzenegger.)

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted April 30, 2018 07:00 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great news.

Van Eck is taking a serious look at this Xenpow HID150 conversion, so that is promissing.
To me those people are very skilled. They even make parts for projectors that are hard to come by and invent new solutions as well if the origenal design has flaws. (Like the intake with extra rollers for the GS1200 for example.)

I'm spoecially happy, because I live nearby.
When I look at my wife nicely, and ask her to drive to the Efteling, she happely make a pitstop at ven Ecks for me.

I'll keep you posted, but I'm going to pack my Elmo GS1200 already hahaha.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 30, 2018 11:24 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding the 150watt Xenpow lamp, has anyone found a source and model for the needed ballast?

Thank you!

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted May 01, 2018 11:06 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The conversion is not going to happen.
This is so sad.
If anyone knows of an experienced technician, who is willing to do this, I'm all ears?

A tutorial of how to do this youraelf is also welcome?

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