8mm Forum: HID Xenpow conversion for Elmo GS-1200

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Topic: HID Xenpow conversion for Elmo GS-1200

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 01, 2018 02:05 PM

Alan
I believe this is the ballast in my 16mm Bell & Howell.
https://www.venturelightingeurope.com/products/hid-lighting/ballasts-and-components/ventronic-ballasts/hid-data-sheet.html?code=VYS150255

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Maurice

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 02, 2018 08:13 AM

Nice find Maurice, thank you.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 02, 2018 11:51 AM

A word of friendly advice to anyone planning to take the plunge and modify their GS1200 to use HID lighting - the choice of lamp power supply is one that must be made very carefully as the GS is hyper susceptible to electrical interference - as I found out myself when I fitted one to a GS a while ago - although the power supply had all the correct attributes to both strike and run the lamp, it also created so much interference to make it useless when used with the GS it literally drove the amplifier circuit crazy.

It took a couple more attempts to find a version that worked and it is my understanding that version is no longer made.

I am in no way trying to put people off modifying their GS1200 to HID - but please consider the time taken and trial and error attempts during the original modification process for Bill Parsons (and possibly other skilled projector techs) to come up with the ideal combination of components - it is by no means as simple a process to complete successfully as some may think it is.

Kevin

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

posted May 02, 2018 12:09 PM

But powering the Xenpow HID150 with the ballast from outside, should not give those problems, do they?

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

posted May 02, 2018 12:10 PM

Oops, Double post

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 02, 2018 12:35 PM

I'm not sure Matthieu as mine is fitted underneath the projector so effectively outside but still close to the amplifier components - yes in theory a longer set of leads from an exterior power supply should help - it is a case of trial and error, the manufacturer, Ventronic, have made at least six different versions in the past few years, some worked OK with the GS and some didn't.

This is where having a professional tech to do the work pays off as you will not end up with a collection of non suitable power supplies the suppliers will not take back as they work to the original spec (ie: strike and light the lamp) it is not their problem if they cause a sound fault when used with nearly 40 year old cine projectors.

Kevin

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

posted May 02, 2018 02:49 PM

But that's the problem.
There are no technicians who are experienced with this Xenpow HID150 conversion and still offering this service.
Or am I wrong?
I really hope so.

When I'm wrong,...
- Can there be made a list of them and where this service takes place, country, city?
- How long does this conversion take? (For people who live in another country and maybe book a vacation for it, to bring the GS1200 the first day and pick it up the last day.)
- Or what's the best way of packing and shipping an Elmo GS1200?
Wrepped in a thick blanked/comforter and stuffed in a wooden box, knowing that the service company takes care of the same way of shipment, and will the duanne keep it packed like that at the borders?

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 02, 2018 10:01 PM

As Kevin pointed out the balast in the link is no longer available so the hunt continues. Ive been searching for weeks and found only a few options and have no idea if they will work. The only way to find out is to spend the money and keep our fingers crossed. If anyone else comes accross a balast and or source please update this thread,

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 04, 2018 02:49 PM

quote:
It is my understanding that version is no longer made

Kevin quoted this, however Venture Lighting's website is very active, and RS Components Ltd say "Available for back order for despatch 9 May 2018."
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lighting-ballasts/7174035/
https://www.venturelightingeurope.com/products/hid-lighting/ballasts-and-components/ventronic-ballasts/hid-data-sheet.html?code=VYB150255

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Maurice

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 04, 2018 03:16 PM

Just to clarify Maurice, my statement in full was:

'It took a couple more attempts to find a version that worked and it is my understanding that version is no longer made.'

I was referring to the version used on my projector as no longer being available, not to the one you mentioned - I have no experience of that version so cannot comment on whether it will be suitable and not cause excessive interference if used with a GS1200.

It would be useful if others with HID modded GS1200s could comment on this with their experiences if they had tried and found versions that did or did not work.

Kevin

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted May 04, 2018 03:59 PM

I know some of these machines were modified and used in larger rooms, such as the BFCC showings among others.
Please excuse my ignorance here, but is the light output on a GS1200 not more than enough for an average room?
I know there is always room for improvement but the cost of it all and the skills required to do it seem quite intense. Then of course if it should require future attention the problems start all over again [Wink]

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

posted May 04, 2018 04:21 PM

The light of the ESC lamp is too warm and yellow and is not so good for colors (now we've seen better) compared to the 15V150W XLS Xenophot lamps, which makes colors more vibrant.
Xenon give even a whiter light that goes more to the 6000Kelvin.
For video we calibrate the light to 6500 kelvin, which is a good lightcolor.
Many video projectors have a too cool light output of above 7000 Kelivn and need a calibration.
Super8 projectors where too warm and around 3500 Kelvin.

So you see,... it is not only for brightness, but also for a good white color.
If my GS1200 had the brightness of my Bauer T610 with the somewhat whiter color, I would be happy already.
At first I was searching for a 24V250WXenophot conversion, till a few came with the easy to fit Xenpow HID150

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 04, 2018 06:00 PM

Hello Tom

HID has not been used at the BFCC - the original GS1200 used there was Keith's GS1200 Xenon, which was more recently joined by John's HTI GS1200 - confusing I know but HTI and HID are not the same type of illumination - in the case of John's HTI machine (again modified by the master Bill Parsons) I believe it is the brightest GS1200 ever converted although I would be interested to hear from others 'in the know' if this is not the case.

So to your question - yes the Halogen GS1200 ESC does provide a big and bright image, but as with all halogen lamps a somewhat yellow light compared to the whiter light of HID, HTI and short arc Xenon lamps. It is only when you see the difference when projecting a film you are familiar with you may then feel that halogen is no longer for you - a bit like the old washing powder ads of yesteryear when the customers were asked if they would like to go back to their old brand having seen the results of a new 'whiter than white' detergent.

Additionally, once modified a HID GS1200 has the lowest lamp running cost per hour - 50 hours per ESC at £20+ each, or 800 to 1000 hours for a HID lamp at about £60 each. HID lamps are in current production, top quality ESC lamps are not (by top quality I mean Fuji, Elmo or GEC brands).

I stand by my comments I've made to many collectors when chatting this is the best value modification I have ever had done to any projector I've owned and wholeheartedly recommend anyone with a GS1200 that wants to get the very best picture quality to go for it as long as they have the technical skills or access to a tech that can do it properly for them.

Kevin

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 05, 2018 01:54 AM

Thank you Kevin for clarifying your statement.

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Maurice

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted May 05, 2018 03:25 AM

Yes, the HID wasn't used at the BFFC, but was at the Blackpool event. 16mm and Super 8 if I remember correctly.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 373
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017

posted May 05, 2018 05:08 AM

Nicely said Kevin.

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted May 05, 2018 05:15 AM

So what's the easier conversion, HID or HTI, or are they pretty much the same ballast/lamp affair?

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted May 05, 2018 02:35 PM

Thanks for the info Kevin, now i have a much better understanding.
Next question, what can be done with an ST1200HD [Big Grin]

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