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Author Topic: Filmguard save? How to apply?
Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 09, 2018 09:40 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just received Filmguard.
It smells fantastic. Also the film after using it.
-Is it save to breath it in, while using it?
- Do I need to dry the film afterwards, or is it good for the film to be rolled up with it?
It now takes up a bit less space on the reel, because it packs tighter, but I'm affraid it might get sticky.

What I do, I use a katon cloth soaked with Filmguard and let my Elmo GS1200 rewind the film through my fingers.
I do this rewinding twice to get the film back on it's origenal reel, both times with Filmguard soaking cloth, so it's applyed very well.
Not sure if the second time needs to be a dry cloth.
I thought, with a Dry Web Media Cleaner, the film stays wet as well, is it?

I know my father used something in the past (I think from Kodak) and hanged a reel on the other side of the room, so the film got a long way before it got back on the rewindreel, just to make sure it was dry.
But does it need to be dry with Filmguard?

Also, is it save for the Elmo GS1200 to use the fast rewind function?
My Goko-MM1 was not powerfull enough to rewind holdimg the film between my fingers.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted June 09, 2018 10:36 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Matthieu
I'm not surprised it runs well in the GS,I think your putting too much on,One pass is enough and you don't have to soak it so much,a slightly less amount is needed,you coat the film if that makes sense. If your unsure about fumes then do it in a well ventilated area,it's not one of the worst smelling/fumes cleaner.

As for using the GS for rewinding,it will do it but will put extra wear on the motor,I personally wouldn't do it all the time but a set of rewind arms would be better if your doing a lot of applications ,or find a cheap projector and use that if the reel capacity is ok,Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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David Baker
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Hamilton , Ohio
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted June 09, 2018 10:37 AM      Profile for David Baker   Email David Baker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've found using Filmgaurd that allowing the film to sit in a covered box or can for several months , it dries nicely and the VS is totally not detectable .
As far as rewinding with the Elmo - if you can , get a set of manual rewinds and use them . It will save the life of the Elmo gears and belts . Apply it to the film that way .
I would use a well - ventilated area to apply because of fumes .
Hope this helps you out with saving your films !

--------------------
Dave

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 09, 2018 11:27 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Strang thing is,... I really like the smell of the fumes.
Not sure if it gets healt problems tho.
Not everything that smells godd is healty, take glue.
But Filmguard smells so much better hahaha.

@ David.
You get them in a bit sticky and they dry well?
The reason I used it so wet, is becaus I really need to clean up my films.
I got them all second hand and my projector gets dirty while playing them.
I thought, cleaning them twice will get off all the dirt for sure.
The cloths are very dirty the first time.
Hoping it's not the audio track thats coming off.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 3959
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted June 09, 2018 01:04 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As many, I guess, I put Filmguard on a cotton cloth and change when it gets too dirty (some films are clean but others are very dirty). I use a dry cotton cloth when rewinding the film and change when it's becomes too wet. I noticed that with some optical sound filmstocks, there are sometimes drops left so it's important to dry. To apply and after dry Filmguard, I only use manual rewinders. The risk you're taking with using a projector is that it you have the cloth trapped in a damadged perforation, you may not, due to the speed react quickly enough to avoid troubles.

--------------------
Dominique

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1513
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted June 09, 2018 02:03 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Dominique that print of Futtocks End I bought at the Big Screen Scene was rather dirty, but had much better colours (Fuji stock)when cleaned than the extract I already possessed (Eastman).

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1575
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 09, 2018 02:20 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini   Email Chip Gelmini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use the Kelmar film cleaner easily adapted from 35 to 16 / 8. You just have to find a way to fit it to your booth setup, as I did on my towers.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4495
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 09, 2018 02:25 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As i understand it, one of the benefits of filmguard for the user is that there are no toxic fumes at all, it is very safe to use. But as with any chemical, i ensure good ventilation. [Wink]

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 09, 2018 04:43 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, if it's not toxic, I just as well enjoy the smell.
With a window open next to it.

After adding the Filmguard, it's just like my films are new and just printed, like stapping into a new car.

I did all my 1200" reels twice with Filmguard, without drying them.
Tomorrow, I'll take them out of their boxes and dry them.

Did someone try adding Filmguard, while hanging a reel on the other side of the room and letting the film go all the way before coming back to the takeup reel, so the film has to take 15 meter of air,before roling up?
Isn't that a better way?
I'm afraid the dry cloth will damage the film a bit, because of friction.

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Will Trenfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 440
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted June 09, 2018 05:12 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I mount the film between the arms of my cine editor. I dip a small artist's paint brush into some Filmguard and brush it onto both sides of the exposed film. I then lightly clamp the film with a clean piece of white cotton cloth held between my figures and wind 50 to 100 feet or so of film through. Checking the cotton will show how much dirt has been removed. I repeat the process using a clean area of the cloth each time until the end of the reel. When I rewind the film, I lightly clamp it again with a piece of cotton cloth to remove any surplus fluid. You don't need to use much Filmguard as a little goes a long way. It lubricates film so a clean, dry, cotton cloth clamped lightly around the film shouldn't cause any damage. It takes a while to dry and some prefer to leave treated films out or in opened boxes apparently. I like the smell as well!

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 10, 2018 01:20 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think this is indeed the way for maintaining, but my old films are so dirty, it probably can't harm to do this again the way you described. I shall test this.
I'll do one of the reels again to see if there is more dirt coming off.
If so, I'll finish the rest of the films the way I did, and than start over the way it suppose to be done.

What happens, is that the second time rewinding with filmguard takes more dirt of the film.
I think the dirt need some time to get loosen up, so rewinding back takes it off better the second time.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4495
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 10, 2018 03:04 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All ive done for 40 odd years, is apply the cleaner to a good 100% cotton hanky between thumb and finger. Using rewind arms,(you cant get a decent amount of pressure if you use the projector in rewind),and winde the film through, changing to a clean piece of cloth every 100/200 feet. If the film is very badly soiled i do it again on reverse but i still give the film another going through using another clean but dry cloth to take off the excess using only the lightest of contact. I did go through a period with filmguard of over applying and this does not do the projector or films any good. Now ive got it about right and it seems to work well. My own opinion is that you really do need rewind arms to do to this properly unless you go one better and buy the projector cleaning attatchments. Ive never found it necessary to do this myself. [Wink]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1507
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 10, 2018 04:01 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
100% with Tom on this method. [Smile]

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted June 10, 2018 05:24 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Me too,I'm with Tom,Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 178
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017


 - posted June 10, 2018 07:43 AM      Profile for Martin Dew   Email Martin Dew   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, agree with Tom's method. I use an 800ft Goko editor as my rewind arms, but also use silk lens cleaning cloths (like you get in a specs case) rather than cotton. Probably makes no difference, but I find silk to be both absorbent and completely non-abrasive.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 10, 2018 10:29 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now, if all you kind people have the same longtime experience, I must not be so stobborn and do what you do.
Thanks a lot.

The Goko I have has 1200" reel arms, but it cannot take so much counterpressure.
My Elmo GS1200 is much much stronger., but I like this projector to life longer than just surviving my cleaning time.

I have to find myself a nice couple of rewind arms afterall.
A few monts back I wanted to ask the cinema's nearby for those, because they all went digital by now.
I think I'll have to do this afterall.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4495
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 10, 2018 10:41 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matthieu, rewind arms often come up for sale, check the dealers, also Van Ek and even ebay. They come up quite often. They are defiantly worth there weight in gold. I use them to bench rewind all my films, i believe over years, this must save a lot of wear on the projector. Many have disagreed with this, but surly if you rewind on the arms and not keep using the motor/gears etc of the projector, doesn't it make sense? [Confused] [Wink]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5274
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 10, 2018 01:47 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some replying have mentioned its smell. What does it smell like?

--------------------
Maurice

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 288
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 10, 2018 02:03 PM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom.
I see the rewindarms often, but not with a 1200" reel capacity.
Or just not when I'm looking.

Maurice, it smells like, very nice.

Okay, that's a bad joke.
I shall try;
It smells like a clean office, but when you smell it in verry deep, it has a hint of childens erasers, the pink gummy colored ones, mixed with some sort of cleaner.
It's a warm nice smell.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1507
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 10, 2018 02:07 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe rewinds are a must because you can control the speed and pressure of the application cleaning and examination before you put your valuable film through your valuable projector.

When damage or imperfections become apparent between your fingers and the cloth, you can stop and examine, consider repair, etc.

Make good at this stage, together with a check on a good film editor machine, eg. a Goko motorised, before running in an actual projector and your films will have the best chance.

As has been many times before here, but projecting film is a hobby with as much passion as any other. Projection is the last stage of caring for valuable film.

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 18, 2018 07:00 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone ever seen audio enhancements with the use of the Filmguard?
In addition to not causing damage to the magnetic tracks, it could also allow a smoother audio, with less obstacles and a more constant speed.

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 20, 2018 05:56 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...apart from the rest... In Europe the Filmguard can only be found by the usual UK seller?
Is the 16 oz format somewhere available?

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Nantawat Kittiwarakul
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Rajburana, Bangkok, Thailand
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted July 20, 2018 08:14 PM      Profile for Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Email Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only if Filmguard could be shipped overseas... [Frown]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 3959
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 20, 2018 11:20 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, it smells like the products used for wood furnitures.

--------------------
Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 21, 2018 07:59 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems to me that the official supplier shipping overseas. I am wrong?
Dom, do you buy it in Europe?

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