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» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Super 8mm to 4K...what is the point?

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Author Topic: Super 8mm to 4K...what is the point?
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5420
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 22, 2018 02:07 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a big news from Spain that Super 8mm can now be transferred to 4K.

https://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.com/2018/06/super-8-4k-mas-de-3-terabytes-de.html?m=1

This is a big news, but it comes to my mind, what is the point? The small area of 8mm (even actually less) will not have enough information to be stored as 4K quality.

I am afraid what will be seen is the grains instead of sharper picture. I am imagining this like using a magnifier to see our skin and we will see more dots and not as smooth as we see our skin with our bare eyes.

So am I wrong in understanding 4K for 8mm?

Can someone enlighten me please.

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1694
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted June 22, 2018 02:51 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would think only for archiving the film as near to its original state. For viewing a downscale may be better, after all it was said that for DVD/Blu ray of films scanning the original at twice the intended final format was best.

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 970
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted June 22, 2018 10:45 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Didn't you notice Corzo mentions he used some beta versione of the new Ekta 100!!!! More details, please!!!!

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Maurizio

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10041
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 22, 2018 11:20 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Better make sure that you clean that film really good before transfering! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4321
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted June 22, 2018 11:41 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurizio, I don't want to spread rumours but I heard when I was in Spain a few weeks ago that the new super 8 filmstock was being tested at the moment. I don't know any details but it looks promising.

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Dominique

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted June 23, 2018 03:13 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you are probably quite right Winbert. In the same way, why have 4k on mobile phones, tablets, laptops. or small size TVs. You would never notice the difference to standard definition. I have been given to understand that many Digital Cinema projectors are 2k! It is all part of the sales gimmics to sell you the latest model. So also is using them for making movies. Yes you can store a lot of footage on them but if you are out doors, the batteries do not last long before having to replace them or re Charge them. Ken Finch

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted June 23, 2018 06:38 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What 4K gives you is "overhead". The extra resolution helps resolve the film grain more correctly (which is important so it doesn't become digital noise but still looks like film grain.)

It also allows you to over-scan the film image (past the frame) and then crop it in post and use stabilizing software to the image will be a lot steadier when viewed on the screen.

This stability greatly benefits the perceived sharpness of the film, especially a format as inherently "gate-jittery" as Super-8 can be.
Recent Blu-rays with scans of classic silent features utilize this overscan/stabilizing combo to produce beautiful images.
C.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted June 23, 2018 08:14 PM      Profile for Daniel D. Teoli Jr.   Email Daniel D. Teoli Jr.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OP, when upscaling digital still files I've tested if raising the resolution by say 10 times makes it any better looking than the lower res original. And it does.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 351
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted July 07, 2018 09:04 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it 4K or UHD?
4K only stands for the resolution.
UHD also adding Wider Color Gamut and High Dynamic Range.
4K resolution is great for large screening.
WCG and HDR is also great on a 32" screen.

In the cinema's we already look at colors in DCI P3 which has a wider color dept than Blu-Ray has with it's REC709, which was already better than the DVD's REC601.
P3 gives more lifelike colors, that can be much deeper as well if needed.
HDR gives us a larger scale between black and white, and goes behind that for sunlight and reflections of specular highlights.

I do not think analog film goes that far, so HDR will not add anything to a transffer from Super8, but WCG does.

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Daniel Macarone
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Summit NJ, USA
Registered: Nov 2015


 - posted July 07, 2018 03:36 PM      Profile for Daniel Macarone   Author's Homepage   Email Daniel Macarone   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert,
The small frame of super 8 film can have the equivalent of 4K resolution. It's all in the lens that is used. If you have footage this sharp, then the more digital space, the better.

Repeating what Claus said- You see the grain correctly. Also, you can crop to 1:85:1 ratio and still have good quality, but the film grain must be very fine to do this.

Higher scanning will always let the film be more acceptable for digital projection on a big screen and Super 8 film should have that opportunity. I've had my short films scanned in 2K and screened at a film festival and the footage looked very good on a big screen in 2K, but I knew it could look even better in 4K.

Projecting on film is still the best, but it hasn't been possible for Super 8 filmmaking anymore.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5420
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 07, 2018 10:31 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So this could be an ironic that (nowadays) projecting films will be a lot better with LCD projector since no jitter, brighter lamp, color correction, etc... [Razz]

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Winbert

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 351
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted July 08, 2018 07:29 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Meybe yes but with less funn.
No ratle sound and without seeing the filmreel rotate and all the feeling that comes with it.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4773
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 08, 2018 03:59 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
wasn't it Steven Spielberg who said Digital tries to imitate film?
I think film has a look of its own, i have to say though, the digital projected images that Graham puts up here are fantastic. Beggars the question why people still want to pay top dollar for a film print instead of switching to digital, (that includes me).
I wonder where film will be in five years [Wink]

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