8mm Forum: Not so silent

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Topic: Not so silent

Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted September 13, 2018 04:53 PM

So I ran a silent 200 footer of Jason and the Argonauts this evening, one I got second hand a while back. I ran it on my sound projector and discovered it, weirdly, had sound. Sort of.

The film is definitely a silent edition as it has subtitles for the dialogue but someone has somehow recorded a (very bad quality) music track onto it. There's no sound stripe that I can see so I'm at a loss as to how it got on there.

Anyone any ideas how this came about? Can sound be
recorded directly onto a super 8 film? I've never come across anything like this before.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 13, 2018 05:33 PM

Gary,

You've come across the cursed silent print with sound that has driven collectors mad for decades. Leave your projector and run while you still have a chance!

Hmmm....could you unspool a foot or two and post a close up pic of a few frames, making sure we see the edges?

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 13, 2018 05:57 PM

It is impossible to record any sound on super 8mm film without stripe. One clue is that Gary says the music is very poor quality. Which raises the question. Is he really hearing music or something else? If he is running this silent film on an Elmo projector, he might be picking up EMI from a radio station in the area - Elmo's are famous for this. Or maybe he is hearing some sort of mechanically generated sound from his projector.

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Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted September 14, 2018 06:33 AM

Here's a couple of pics...

I thought, stupidly, the sound stripe was on the sprocket-side of the reel so this may in fact reveal it is indeed a sound film. However, as I said there are subtitles for the dialogue throughout so the mystery remains.

The music's definitely on the film and not something I'm picking up from elsewhere as the same track plays from the start. Definitely music. It's sounds like an odd seventies rock musical or something. Can't quite make out the lyrics.

The leader's marked with the following 'PRINT BY ENG. LONG'

Is it possible a silent edition was printed on sound film and that's what a previous owner's recorded over?

It's the Battle of Talos reel

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 14, 2018 08:17 AM

I'm glad you found it, Gary!

(It was starting to freak me out a little! [Wink]

)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted September 14, 2018 09:13 AM

Still seems weird that it should be on a silent subtitled film.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 14, 2018 09:14 AM

Well...Talos...what do you expect, the battle...the eerie atmosphere, bound to hear the dreaded harpies from afar...

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted September 14, 2018 10:03 AM

Very interesting... I own EXACTLY the same thing: a subtitled colour 'silent' print of the Talos sequence of 'Jason and the Argonauts' with both main and balance stripe but mine has no sound recorded. In a 'silent' marked box. The colour has faded to red.

The stripe tails off before the end of the lab leads too so at one end looks like a silent print. I imagined someone in the past has striped it at home but maybe they were produced in a few copies for some reason?

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 14, 2018 10:30 AM

It's unusual, but not unheard of: I have at least one silent reel with a stripe and Doug did some really well done post-dubbed silent digests and showed them at CineSea. (-subtitles AND sound too!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted September 14, 2018 10:45 AM

I was starting to think that it might have been an optical sound print?! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted September 14, 2018 12:32 PM

Roger Lilley of Movieland often striped silent prints himself, added the soundtrack and sold them. I had a couple of Disney 200 footers, and at least one Tom and Jerry that were done this way.

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