8mm Forum: Re Recording Sound on a GS1200 without sync.

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Topic: Re Recording Sound on a GS1200 without sync.

Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted October 16, 2018 02:29 PM

I have the 2x 400' film of the Beatles in Tokyo - The Budokan Concert. However, the sound is soooo far behind the picture the corresponding piece of film it is recorded on hasn't even entered the projector when the frame is being projected!.... bad as that!
What I would like to do is to record the sound onto mini disc (yes....remember that? Best digital recording method ever in my opinion)and attempt to sync it without using a pulse.

The question is... as mini disc is digital, will it play at exactly the speed/pitch as it was recorded? And also, the same with the GS1200 ? As long as I don't move the variable speed control, what is the likelihood of it remaining in sync? They are supposed to be good at running at a constant speed.
Is it worth doing or just don't go there?

I look forward to receiving your advice and your experiences of this practice.

(Oops! Meant to post this on the 8mm forum not general yak - sorry!)

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted October 16, 2018 02:32 PM

Firstly Melvin does your GS1200 record? If it hasn't been used for recording for a while the recording capacitors may have failed, Mark.

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Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted October 16, 2018 05:16 PM

Good point. Will check.

Assuming all is okay..........?

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted October 17, 2018 04:51 AM

Melvin, MD speed will be 100% consistent between both recording & PB. The projector, though might not, although to what extent and exactly when it will start to drift depends on several factors (lube, momentum, speed control board accuracy, motor drive belt condition etc); in a best case scenario, given the duration (relatively short) of the reel, chances are no adjustment is required; in a worst case scenario you might need to adjust speed every now and then; we are talking of very small variations here. Of course you must keep a close eye (and ear) to the image and sound while re-recording in order to act promptly at the slightest evidence of drift, or you'll be forced to cranck up (or down) too fast which will result in unpleasant sound during playback. It's doable but you might need more than one trial. Good luck!

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Maurizio

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 17, 2018 07:28 AM

If you are looking to do lip-sync perfectly, sound and picture has to be frame-accurate, all the time. That's where the sync box comes in. Having a projector run "wild" may work for a bit, but I would doubt very much that even a GS would be that rock-steady on its own when running against a digital sound source.
C.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted October 17, 2018 02:29 PM

Thank you everybody for your input.

I think the first thing to check is that it WILL record in the first place as I have not needed to use this facility yet in the 3 years I have owned it.

Maurizio - Thank you for your info. Wasn't sure of the mini disc accuracy but relieved it is 100%

Claus - Thanks, too, go to you. Unfortunately, I don't own a sync box and as I am, firstly, a lone hobbyist and, secondly, not technically minded, I wouldn't know what machine would respond to a sync box. It is frustrating when there is no one with you to guide you along. Maybe someone here could advise, or guide me to any previous posts that deal with the subject.

At the end of the day..... I will attempt it in the not too distant future and report back here with the results. At the moment the sync is out by about 5 seconds (yes... as bad as that) so any attempt by me must SURELY be an improvement,even if it is not spot on.

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 17, 2018 02:39 PM

quote:
.....any attempt by me must SURELY be an improvement, even if it is not spot on

Melvin
I agree with your thinking, it must be awful to have a film that is so badly out of sync.
I wish you every success with your venture.

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Maurice

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

posted October 17, 2018 02:46 PM

Melvin what will you use for the sound source ?. If you have the dvd or video this could be synced up to the footage you have with a sync box between the two. I could lone you a box if it helps, but has said for good or perfect sync a frame for frame with your film will make it easier. If you have audacity(free download ) can create a square wave pulse that will lock the projector, but you still have to shift the sound to match, even on the fly its tricky, so set aside some time to do this. As you say though you will have to check the gs will record first, and if not you will need to get that repaired first, my gs was caput as far as recording was concerned, but its fixed now, a tricky job to do, but doable and worth it.

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