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Author Topic: Star Wars trilogy in super 8
Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 05, 2013 11:50 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
to Michael Beyer : a bootleg print is not the same as an official print for a genuine collector, especially a Star Wars collector. It does not matter if the quality is better or not : owning the original release and packaging is part of the collecting process.

I am sure you understand what I mean :-)

Then having the opportunity to have a quite new set of prints for the entire trilogy is something which does happen often...

By the way, why Empire never got an official release ? The owner of the rights are the same for each film of the trilogy : why did they allow official release of SW and Jedi, and not for ESB ?

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Michael Beyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Bingen, Germany
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted February 06, 2013 02:08 AM      Profile for Michael Beyer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Beyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
By the way, why Empire never got an official release ? The owner of the rights are the same for each film of the trilogy : why did they allow official release of SW and Jedi, and not for ESB ?
Hi Baudime,
that's something what I don't understand, too, why Derann never released Empire. Perhaps it was, because "Empire" was not as famous as the other ones of the trilogy.

BTW: The same with James Bond: the only "official" releases were some flat airline-prints. I never understand, why the films were not released on Super 8. The only ones you can get are bootlegs. And some titles are really bad quality.

quote:
Then having the opportunity to have a quite new set of prints for the entire trilogy is something which does happen often...
To me it happened, because the formally owners of my Star Wars and Jedi are friends of mine.

I know what you mean, but I must say, if I can have a better print as bootleg than the original (f.e. Once upon a time...), I prefer the bootleg [Big Grin]
And I think, that I am a real collector, as you can see on my website [Big Grin]

Keep perforated,
Michael

--------------------
Just remember the time when Home Cinema was not a disc...keep perforated

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 06, 2013 02:24 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am sure you are a great collector ! (by the way, where is your website ? I would be delighted to visit it !)

I was just speaking about Star Wars collectors : their main focus is not super-8 itself, but genuine vintage items from the original trilogy. Therefore, bootlegs are not valuable for them - and I am one of them !

As for Empire, it is not the most successful movie in term of market, but it is also the favorite of all Star Wars fans. Derann would have made a lot of cash with a print of it... The mystery remains !

As for 007, I have a superb print of Goldfinger : frankly, I don't know where it was made, but sound and colors are pristine.

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Michael Beyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Bingen, Germany
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted February 06, 2013 03:45 AM      Profile for Michael Beyer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Beyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My website is called Michael's Super 8-Welt, but it is in german [Big Grin]
To see the list of my full features, you have to go to "Sammlung" - "Komplettfassungen". Click on the images and you will see the details of the film.

Just a little correction to my last post: Goldfinger and Thunderball were released by Derann, but I think they were the only "officials".

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Just remember the time when Home Cinema was not a disc...keep perforated

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 06, 2013 04:52 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Goldfinger must be a Derann print therefore.

I have visited your website : congratulations ! I have bookmarked it because it is full of informations and I will learn a lot thanks to you, especially from the technical point of view.

And it will also allow me to revise my German ! Before studying English, German was my first foreign language because my parents (musicians as I am myself) had a strong German culture and we had many friends in Germany. But then, English overtook German, especially in my professional life : I can still read it, but I lost my fluent German, even if I lived three years in Landau (Pfaltz). I miss the bretzels !

Here is one of my two professional websites and my personal fan website.

Back to super-8 : do you know if I could find a super-8 non-cinemascope print of ET with English sound and titles ?

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 396
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 06, 2013 05:15 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling   Email Rob Koeling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to go off-topic again, but I had a look at your website and that looks great!

I would love to see 'The Goddess' with your score. Any chance of a UK tour at some point? Failing that, I don't suppose there is a dvd available?

- Rob

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 06, 2013 05:38 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Rob ! I hope we can fix such a tour one day or another : but the "market" is currently very poor in demand. To have a string quartet touring is quite expensive... But I would dream to come to the UK ! We already accompanied The Goddess in many venues in France, but also abroad and we are trying to export it in Asia (China, Singapore and Taïpeh). Next Monday, we will perform this cine-concert in Limoges : you are invited !

Speaking about music (and super-8), I would like to purchase a super 8 print of Psycho with English sound and titles : it was never released as such (only in 8mm) but if anyone know a way to get a new print (or has one for sale), I am interested. I love this film whose score I conducted many times in live concerts. Here is one of my most recent performance

[ February 07, 2013, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Baudime Jam ]

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted February 06, 2013 10:55 AM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love Bernard Herrman's music. He did a lot of Alfred Hitchock & Ray Harryhausen films. On Psycho he only used strings. And Journey to the Center of the Earth he used woodwinds. Very creative composer. But I loved his Harryhausen scores the most.

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Michael Beyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Bingen, Germany
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted February 06, 2013 11:08 AM      Profile for Michael Beyer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Beyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know anything about a full feature of Psycho. Perhaps there was a italian release/bootleg, but we all know, what quality they have...

Okay, I will try it [Big Grin]
Do you plan a tour through Germany ?
BTW - My hometown is only 100 km away from Landau [Big Grin]
And I have every day a Brezel [Big Grin]

--------------------
Just remember the time when Home Cinema was not a disc...keep perforated

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 06, 2013 11:12 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...just after music and cinema, fresh bretzels are my favorite delights in life [Wink]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10041
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 06, 2013 01:52 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Though Empire was never "officially" released, the German scope print is nothing to sneeze at and I do believe, is a much better color than Derann's STAR WARS feature, (though I have that too), and is also sharper.

Now, though I love STAR WARS, I chose to not buy the Jedi print as I hate those damned ewoks, (I can't get away from the truth that they do look like little people in bear costumes! GRRR!), that, and I have also seen some incredibly AWFUL printings of the Derann Jedi. I bought one from a German collector for a friend and I was apalled at how bluish it was. It was in fact, so bluish that the Endor scenes had very little actual green, just shades of blue. I'm not kidding, it was that bad. I should hope that not all printings of Jedi faired so terribly as I Derann does have high marks as a general rule for they're prints.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted February 06, 2013 03:01 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
The talented people this forum attracts is truly astounding.

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 06, 2013 04:48 PM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
to Osi : I agree with your appreciation of prints' quality. However, I stick to the idea that a Star Wars collector is not interested mainly with the stock quality (image, colors, contrasts, sound, etc.) but with the fact that a print is a vintage item or not. This means that there are two different ways of considering the value of such collectibles. A bad print of a vintage Star Wars print will be more valuable for a SW fan than a pristine new bootleg print - especially if it has German scrolling titles and soundtrack. All depends if you intend to project this print or only store on a shelf along with other pieces of a collection.

I am a musician and I know this paradigm. A violin will be of great value because of its age or some craftsmanship characteristic, even if it sounds awfully. In the other hand, a very recent instrument, with a gorgeous sound, won't be of any interest for a collector. All depends if you intend to play this violin or just keep it in a safe.

This is why I initiated this discussion about the value of super-8 prints. For my own trilogy prints (which, I remind, were in excellent condition, like new), I was proposed offers ranging from 120 euros to 2250 euros. Who is right ? Who is wrong ? All depends from which point of view !

Then, as a seller, I could have sold these prints for a even higher price, if separately. But I preferred to keep them together and I am glad that they will be in the hands of an enthusiastic and careful collector [Smile]

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

Posts: 302
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted February 06, 2013 09:25 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Argh! I can't believe I missed this!

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 07, 2013 03:06 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Pete,

if you are interested, contact me at b.jam@free.fr
I have some more Star Wars super-8 stuff for sale of which I can send you the list.

Best regards

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted February 07, 2013 05:40 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with your views Baudime on the two different types of collectors. And because of the huge Star Wars fan base that are not "film" collectors I believe this is part of what drives the prices up on these prints.

By the way, I watched the performance of PSYCHO...that was awesome! Congratulations you are a very talented fellow! I love Hitchcock and I was getting goosebumps listening to that concert.

Well done!

Bill [Smile]

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 07, 2013 06:42 PM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you :-) The first time I conducted this superb score goes back to 1997, and it was in Warsaw. Quite a long time ago...

Apart from Herrmann (who is the absolute film composer ever, after me), I love Williams - of course. Here are performances of E.T. and Raiders

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted February 07, 2013 06:48 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Williams is great...Have you ever conducted any Star Wars themes?

Also, in my mind an underrated score by J. Williams is THE FURY. Plenty of goosebumps in that score as well.

Bill [Smile]

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 07, 2013 07:02 PM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I did (the Star Wars suite) but no video on youtube :-(
"Fury" is a masterwork - and the film is excellent as well !
Do you know if any De Palma's movie has ever been released in super 8 ?

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1374
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 07, 2013 07:23 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DePalma films on super 8-

Carrie - a 35 minute digest.

Dressed to Kill - a 45 minute digest.

I love DePalma's style. One of his under-rated movies is "Blow Out", starring John Travolta and Nancy Allen. I love his full use of widescreen in his movies too. (Ooops- off topic [Smile] )

James.

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 07, 2013 07:41 PM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the De Palma's super-8 references.

"Blow Out" is pure thriller but also tragic romance.
Let's not forget "Sisters" (another great Herrmann's score), and "Obsession" which I love the best in his filmography (still Herrmann by the way...).

One is never off topic when dealing with our passion for the 7th Art !

[ February 08, 2013, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Baudime Jam ]

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted February 07, 2013 09:29 PM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Baudime-Have you ever scored a film?

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Baudime Jam
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: France
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted February 08, 2013 03:28 AM      Profile for Baudime Jam   Author's Homepage   Email Baudime Jam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I did compose the original scores for seven silent features and sixth silent shorts.
And I am currently composing the music for two medium-length films.
You can have a look at my website here

So this is kind of special because my scores are intended to be performed on stage with actual screenings, even if some of them have been recorded.

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Alex Goedert
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Esch-sur-Alzette, Luxembourg
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted February 08, 2013 08:15 AM      Profile for Alex Goedert   Email Alex Goedert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

I must say i was probably under the influence of the dark side when i did the deal! [Big Grin]
Although, on the other hand i'm glad that i at least have a print in my collection that Michael hasn't! When i remember the times i've been drooling over his website. BTW, it was partly because of your website that i started collecting Super8 features. That and an innocent question by my friend Ronald Kwiatkowski whether i might be tempted to acquire this or that S8 movie...

I must say, i think the prints were worth the price i paid but i'm only speaking as a movie collector. Who knows, a Star Wars nut might have paid even more? That's why i'm indebted to Baudime for letting me acquire the movies as a lot instead of splitting them up.

Alex

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10041
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 08, 2013 01:54 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's cool Baudime, I have just recently enetred the realm of scoring, having just done the music for a british DVD to be released sometime in the near future, though in this case, the score is pop music.

Of course, the magic of this forum (and life) is that we can all disagree. I would much rather have a brilliant sparkling print of a STAR WARS feature, though bootleg, than have a crappy image "official" print, because, for me, it's the presentation. I'm not enamored with faded STAR WARS prints just because they were a legal release. I'm into quality.

... which was why I commented on that terrible bluish print of "Jedi". It was legal, but I'll be danged if I'm going to project something that looks like crap, whether legal or not.

Legality only really comes into play for "resale" (and actually, from what I understand, the legal prints were never meant to be resold in the first place!), and it doesn't even make the print any more valuable as a general rule, except for the luxury of an original box, (and even some of those weren't all that hot). I sold a "bootleg' of "Empire" months back for $1,200.00 as, though considered bootleg, it was "Empire", in scope.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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