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Author Topic: Star Wars Ken vs. Marketing.
Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1594
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 24, 2005 10:04 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I was recently lucky enough to find a really nice Marketing Films version of Star Wars (which I have been trying to find for ages!) via our generous friend Andreas at www.movies-and-sound.com a couple of people have asked what the differences are between the Ken Films version and the Marketing.

Well despite the obvious one that the Marketing is in German there are lots and lots of differences!

Here goes (and sorry in adavnce for being a complete Star Wars "anorak" with this!)...

Ken released Star Wars in two separate 400ft versions which could be nicely intercut to form a half hour version. Marketing released a 400ft version and a 200ft version which could be spliced straight togther.

So which is better?

The Ken Pt. 1 starts off well, with a 20th Century Fox logo and the complete Fox fanfare with "A Lucasfilm Ltd" and then into the main title with a brief voice over to replace the intro titles. The the fabulous opening shot of the star destroyer sprawling overhead. This shot is actually printed in 'scope to include the whole image! If you haven't seen Derann's 'scope feature, stick a 'scope lens infront of this shot to see what you're missing!

The Marketing version doesn't fare as well initially. It has some extra music over a Marketing Films logo, but a shorter Fox logo and a rather annoying voice over which continues all the way through the opening battle scenes. But then it comes into it's own! There are more intial shots of the droids inside the escaping rebel ship and a much longer opening battle scene in the ship's corridors.

The Ken version condenses this action and moves more swiftly to the arrival of Darth Vader.

The Ken then moves quickly through the scenes of Leia giving R2-D2 the secret plans whilst the Marketing scores again by including much more of this scene, with C3PO watching them from the doorway.

But then it's the Ken version which comes into it's own. Here we see the capture of the rebels and Vader's questioning of the rebel soldier whose neck Vader stretches! This continues with the droids arguing about using the escape pod before blasting off for Tatooine. Next we have Vader questioning Leia about the stolen plans and the following conversation with Vader's henchman about holding her captive and finally the revealtion that an escape pod has been allowed to escape. Very coherent, story wise.

The Marketing versions shows the escape pod blasting off with the droids inside, but chooses to lose everything else. It does make up some points though by including the scene where Leia is actually captured as the stormtroopers fire a stun ray at her which isn't in the Ken.

On tatooine, the Ken version sees R2 being fired upon by the Jawas and toppling over, but the Marketing version is far superior here. We see much more of R2 wandering about as the Jawas plan their attack and R2 being loaded into the sandcrawler. This continues with a bemused R2 inside the sandcrawler and his re-uniting with C3PO.

Both version now move straight to the farm with Uncle Owen buying C3PO and R2. Pros and cons here! The Marketing includes the little argument between Luke and his uncle over doing his chores but then moves straight to Luke taking the droids inside. The Ken version cuts out the argument but has the scene with the red R2 unit exploding and C3P0 persuading Luke and his uncle to buy R2D2 instead.

Both the original Ken Pt.1 and the Marketing then move onto Luke and Ben Kenobi at Ben's home. If you have the Ken Pt.2, however, this is where it starts, with the scenes of Luke cleaning the droids and discovering the hidden message from Princess Leia. Setting off across the dunes to find Ben Kenobi, Luke is attacked by the sandpeople and left for dead before being discovered by Ben.

"The sandpeople are easily startled but will soon be back and in greater numbers", proclaims Ben. We then cut to a shot of Luke's speeder zooming off into the distance. This shot is actually the group heading for Mos Eisley, but it adds a bit of continuity before cutting back to the Ken Pt.1 and the scene at Ben's home.

The Ken version wins out here, with a longer scene of Ben telling Luke about his father before moving onto the explanation of the force and the viewing of Leia's message. The Marketing is shorter, begining with the explanation of the force.

The real gem to find here is the Ken 200ft version. It opens with this scene, but has Ben giving Luke his father's light sabre and Luke waving it around! It also has more at the end of the scene with Luke protesting about going to Alderaan with Ben!

The Ken Pt.2 takes over now with our heroes arriving at Mos Eisley, meeting Han Solo and Chebacca and escaping from Tatooine. The Ken editors do a really nice job of condensing this action, with plenty of shots of the menagerie that is the cantina bar and moving swiftly, but not too abruptly from Han Solo's introduction to the escape of the Millenium Falcon under fire from the Imperial troops. It continues with an uncut scene of the Falcon escaping the looming star destroyers and leaping into hyperspace. Moving straight to the death star, the interogation of Leia by Grand Moff Tarkin and the resulting destruction of Alderaan, this version then moves straight to the Falcon being tractor beamed into the death star and Tarkin and Vader being informed. "They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the princess, she may yet be of some use to us!", proclaims vader.

Back to the Ken Pt.1 and Marketing now. A star destroyer approaches the death star and we're straight into our heroes dressed as stormtroopers in the elevator with Chewbacca. I don't know which editor copied which, but this is one the less convincing plot jumps in both versions! I wish one of them could have found some addional scenes to help this make more sense!

Moving on, our heroes blast the prisoner block control room to bits. This is a great scene because it includes all the original laser blast "body hits" that Lucas cut out in later versions claiming that they were too violent!

The Ken version scores badly here, with Han telling Luke to find the princess whilst he "holds them here", then cutting straight to Luke with Leia proclaiming, "I'm Luke Sywalker, I'm here to rescue you!". The Marketing version instead includes Han's hilarious conversation with the control room and Leia's comments to Luke, "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper!".

The Ken then moves straight to the stormtroopers blasting in and a nice but truncated version of our heroes trapped in the cell bay tunnel. The Marketing wins hands down now by moving from Luke freeing Leia to the scene with Tarkin and Vader discussing Kenobi's presence on the death star, then moving back to the complete scene of our heroe's battle in the cell bay corridor, including Luke talking to C3PO via the intercom and all of the banter between them.

Next, the real gem of the Marketing version; the trash compactor scene! This is cut slightly to exclude Luke being attacked by the huge worm, but is otherwise intact, with Han nearly killing everyone by firing at the "magnetically sealed door" and the droids saving the day by closing down the trash compactor just as our heroes are about to become "a lot thinner!". The Ken version simply cuts away as Han prepares to blast the door.

Next the Ken version has Ben climbing onto the tractor beam control unit and shutting it down. The Marketing version is the same and this is where the second 200ft extract begins. It does include an extra shot of Ben, light sabre at the ready, as he approaches the tractor beam corridor.

Now another gem from the marketing version; our heroes in the corridor drying themselves off after the trash compactor ordeal and the ribbing of Han by Leia.

Both versions move on to our heroes finding the Falcon and making contact with the droids before Han's crazy persuit of the stormtroopers into a dead end corridor. A extra shot of Han fleeing the troopers and Luke and Leia being fired upon looks promising, but then the Marketing loses lots of points by cutting out Luke and Leia's daring swing across the chasm! This is all included by the Ken editors. To make up for this, the Marketing version does includes the scene where Chewbaccca and Han narrowly escape through the closing blast door.

Now the light sabre duel between Vader and Obi-Wan-Kenobi! Well, top scores to Marketing again here, with a couple of extra shots leading into the duel and the complete banter between Darth and Ben, "If you strike me down...", etc. which is cut from the Ken version.

Next the moment that neither version can avoid! The absolutely awful, but contractualy required abscence of Ben's death! Well, faced with cutting one of the most pivotal moments of the movie, neither version fares well, but the Marketing version nudges slightly ahead by including Ben's last knowing smile at Vader which is cut by Ken.

So our heroes are off. The Ken Pt.2 and the 200ft version offer a couple of extra shots of Chewy and Han at the Falcon's controls which can be spliced into the Ken Pt.1 here. These are included in the Marketing version, but then the Marketing version messes up by cutting straight to a shot of the Falcon flying past, whereas the Ken version actually shows the Falcon moving away from the death star.

Into the Tie-fighter battle! The Ken Pt.1 cuts straight to Luke at the turret gun preparing for battle. The Marketing scores higher here with extra intro shots of Han telling Luke, "We're not out of this yet", and the climb into the gun turrets. Another gem can be found from the Ken 200ft version here with extra shots of Luke in moarning as Leia and the droids offer comfort. At least these extra shots show that Luke is the least bit bothered that Ben isn't with them and helps make some sense of his sudden disapperance on the death star!!!

The tie-fighter battle is complete in all versions and as our heroes congratulate each other and the falcon zooms off into the distance, the Marketing and Ken Pt.1 draw to a close. Ken offer a couple of titles and fade out music whereas Marketing just fade out to black.

The Ken Pt.2 saves the day now by offering another 10 minutes of the death star persuing the falcon to the rebel base and a really nicely condensed version of the death star attack. Lots of those terrific original 1977 special-effects and none of the digitally re-vamped shots found in the 1997 re-releases! It wraps up well with a shortened version of the awards ceremony at the end and a brief selection of original end titles with fading out music.

Phew!

I think the Ken Pt.1 version probably makes more sense story wise, even compared to the full Marketing version, but of course loses a lot of action and humour due to it's shorter running time. The Ken editors obviously saw the later Pt.2 release as an opportunity to enhance the story told in Pt.1 since the two are so easily and logically intercut. Of course the real saviour of Pt.2 for all versions is the final death star battle.

Print wise, Ken Pt.1 is nice and sharp if a little grainy and slightly too light. Still much better than average for it's day. Unfortunatley my copy is going a little pink. The 200ft Ken version looks similar but considering the noticeable negative dirt on my copy, probably saw the most print runs! Pt.2 is sadly not as good, with a much softer image and more grain, but still looks good during those final effects-filled battle scenes. The Marketing is somewhere between the two in terms of definition but much less grainy and the contrast is also superior. The colour is unusal. It is much more saturated than the Ken prints and personally I like it, but it isn't entirely natural (Chewbacca looks more orange than brown!) It might also be worth noting that if you plan to intercut the two versions that the Marketing print is on very thin stock (all 30 mins. fits on a 400ft spool easily) so you'd probably have to stay by the focus!

Sound on all three versions is clear, with the Ken Pt.2 taking the prize for the richest recording. Oddly, the sound mix seems different on the Marketing version. Of course the dialogue is German, but the effects track definatley seems to mixed louder, so that the music is less pronounced than on the American tracks. Odd. Still, if you were going to cut them together you'd be having lots of fun re-recording the sound anyway!

That's all folks. Do I get the prize for the longest post? Sorry again non-Star Wars fans.

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Douglas Meltzer
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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted July 24, 2005 10:46 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob,

Terrific review and cut by cut guide to putting it all together. I remember how impressed my friends were back then that I actually could show Star Wars at home!

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
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 - posted July 25, 2005 12:19 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bravo Rob,

That was more than what I had ever expected,and greatly satisfying.
I had to read it several times, and it was if I was watching the digests again and again.

Teriffic. [Smile]
Thank you very much.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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From: France
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 - posted July 25, 2005 03:47 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, fantastic job!
I found the Derann full version a while ago (stunning scope print) but I'm still reluctant to let go of my digests and extracts... Your review convinced me into keeping them a little longer.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Andreas Eggeling
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 - posted July 25, 2005 04:01 PM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fantastic review Rob!!!!!

Now I looking for the 1st Ken Extract to extend my own selected scene edition, also the 200 footer from Ken.

Have to mention, that the first marketing Star Wars prints are made on normal prestriped Kodak or AGFA acetate filmstock too, which are better for intercuting with the Kens to prevent problems with the focus ......

and ....

"Star Wars" was marketing films most sold 8mm title.

[ July 26, 2005, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1594
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 26, 2005 11:35 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the nice feedback everyone.

Michael had asked me for a comparison of the two versions, so I'm especially glad that he's pleased.

Andreas, thanks again for my excellent Marketing copy and freebies, it was a real pleasure to deal with you. Those original Marketing boxes in perfect condition are now one of my most prized possessions!

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John Clancy
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Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
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 - posted July 28, 2005 03:02 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, send that in to Derann will you. That's just the sort of article required for "Film for the Collector". There are plenty of other collectors besides us on here that will enjoy reading it.

Now what ever happened to "The Raiders Curse"?

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1594
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 28, 2005 06:31 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, "The Curse of Raiders" is still a work in progress and I haven't forgotten about it (incidently, we moved house recently and having set up the new bigger, better cinema, "Raiders" was one of the first films on; you should hear that truck in the chase sequence rumble from the rear surrounds toward the screen! The sound just seems to get better and better!)

One problem is that when I started writing it I went all the way back to 1982 with my first 400ft copy (that's when the curse started!) and it brought back so many memories that I ended up with more of a mini-novel which would bore the pants off everyone.

Needs finishing off and severe editing, but I promise to do it!!!

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Michael De Angelis
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 - posted August 02, 2005 10:51 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, what is 'Curse of the Raiders'? [Confused]
Is it another Ken vs. Marketing digest war?

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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John Clancy
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 - posted August 03, 2005 05:37 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's an amazing story Michael of the trials and tribulations of Rob getting a duff copy of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" on any format he purchased.

The story culminates in me trying to re-record his excellent 'Scope Super 8 print and getting the same 'wow' and 'flutter' he'd had at every attempt to get a decent recording. We got it pretty much right in the end - it just took about 8 hours longer than expected!

The whole story is a never ending catalogue of cock-ups and unbelievable happenings and I've been hassling Rob to get it in print ever since he visited. Perhaps we should make him read it out at the 50th!!!

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Michael De Angelis
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 - posted August 03, 2005 03:22 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed John,

It makes for a good story, and something to learn.

How about it Rob? I'd love to hear it too.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted August 05, 2005 04:43 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I promise to finish it as long as I don't have to read it out!!!

Michael, "Raiders" has to be my favourite movie but John is absolutely right; ever since my first 400ft copy I've had problems that just haven't happened with any other film/video/dvd. It really became quite spooky! Must be the power of the Ark!

The story does have a happy ending though. My treasured full length print now has the best soundtrack of all my films thanks to John's generosity, know-how and sheer dedication to the re-recording task.

But John was a witness to the "curse". Things went wrong on that day that I understand hadn't gone wrong before or since "Raiders" went near his GS1200 and sync gear. Honestly; spooky!

You should hear the perfect soundtrack belt out now though! John recorded it just over a year ago now and "Raiders" has had lots and lots of great screenings...and it hasn't spontaneously burst into flames or anything...yet [Wink]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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 - posted August 05, 2005 10:58 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doctor Young, as you can see, there is nothing you can possess that Raiders cannot take away...
Too bad you don't speak Ovitos...
Maybe that would help!
[Wink]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Rob Young.
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 - posted August 05, 2005 05:02 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Too bad the Hovitos don't know you the way I do, super 8!"

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Andreas Eggeling
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 - posted August 05, 2005 05:56 PM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
..... ????? (H)ovitos? ??????

Never heard about? What´s this?

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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 - posted August 05, 2005 09:06 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was asking myself the same question, Andreas, until a Google search revealed the Hovitos are characters in the film. It appears I have to watch it again. [Wink]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted August 06, 2005 03:37 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh yes, Jan, and again...and again...and again... [Smile]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 11, 2005 10:32 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey getting back to Star Wars, Even though I also got the full feature scope edition of it, I decided to keep my 400ft. scope part 2, which still has amazingly good color. Alas, the sharpness isn't anywhere near the Derann feature, (everybody else notice that?), but for an "archival scope super 8", it's pretty darn good!! By the way, did FOX or Marketing ever release a Part 1 scope 400ft digest? I have never seen one anywhere!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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From: France
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 - posted December 10, 2005 04:13 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is an old thread but I couldn't resist freshening it up...

I picked up yet another Star Wars book in Tokyo two weeks ago and, voilà, one of the page is showing an ad for the japanese release of SW in super 8 (by Fuji).

 -

Thought you might like to see it.
Bigger version here.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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 - posted December 10, 2005 11:21 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL, these Japanese characters just kill me everytime. If you glance at that image just right it looks like R2D2 spouting off a long line of curses and, uh, mature language. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Laksmi Breathwaite
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 - posted February 17, 2011 09:52 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite   Email Laksmi Breathwaite   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow what a review Rob!!!! Hey it takes me back to Doug . I was the only one in those days that could show Star Wars out side of the theatre in a Beach Park in Hawaii on a white sheet. Those were the days I was the God on the beach of movies!My Star Wars 200 and 2X400 pT, 1 and 2 still hold up the color till this day. So I'm glad I still have them since that time.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1594
From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 20, 2011 01:30 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're a lucky man indeed to have Pt. 1 with good colour!

Most of them have turned pink sadly [Frown]

[ June 27, 2011, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted June 27, 2011 12:28 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dragging this one up yet again!!!

http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_category&category_id=409

I knew of the existence of the six ie international versions but hadn't seen these covers...

Again, thanks to Jean-Marc, we know of the Fuji Films version, but just look at that box in full colour!

Must have...must have... [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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From: France
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 - posted June 27, 2011 12:36 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
sweeeeeeeeeeeet [Smile]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 27, 2011 01:23 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great to see this topic back up!

In fact, it was your review, Jean, that induced me to seek out and find those marketing German digests! My copies are on Kodak SP, but they very little fade to them and are still much more saturated in color than any US Ken film print I have ever run into.

We even chose to leave them in german as, heck, we already know all the dialogue by heart!

Does anyone know if those six IE 200ft releases have any footage not in the Ken or marketing versions?

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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