8mm Forum: Eiki SSL-1 problem

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Topic: Eiki SSL-1 problem

Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 03, 2004 10:14 AM

I sometimes have a problem with my Eiki SSL-1. I'm not sure whether it is the projector or that the films that give this particular problem need to be cleaned. Most films run without a problem, but I had this problem some time ago when I ran 'Touch of Evil'. The first few minutes the film ran without a problem, but then suddenly the framer of the projector was 'pushed' down. When the framer was in the lowest position, the projector started making a lot more noise. Pushing the framer back up resulted in loosing the loop (and the loop restorer getting into action), but the framer moved down again immediately. After rewinding the film and putting it back on, the same story. The point at which it happened was slighty different though (first time it was during the famous opening scene; the second time just after).

Since then I've had this problem on and off with different films. With some films this never happens, with other films sometimes and other films always. I've got the inpression now that the tension on the film in the film gate is too big. And I suspect that only films that are well lubricated get through no problem, but dryer films cause too much resistance in the gate. If this is correct, cleaning/lubricating all the films would be the best option, but I would still like the projector to be a bit less fussy (not too mention put a little less pressure on the film in order to minimize the danger of damage).
Does anyone have an idea what to do about this?

Thanks,

- Rob

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 03, 2004 03:57 PM

An interesting problem but you need to issolate the problem.

It sounds like it's more film related than projector related, but it could be partly both.

You need to run your offending print on a pair of rewinds slowly and through a velvet to inspect it and see what's going on with the film that's causing the increased "stickshun" in the gate.

Is it dirt or has it be treated with someone's "home brew" or non film type cleaner like Armour All or the like.

Sometimes these "home brew" or other treatments don't show up their effects for a long time, months or years in fact.

You might also has some problem with the gate tension on the projector. If it's too light you'll have noise and picture jump. Too heavy and it increases film wear. The exact specifications are in the repair manual.

I tend to think your problem is with the prints.

John

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 08, 2004 03:15 PM

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply! I'm very pleased to see you posting here!

I first thought it was the film print, but I'm not convinced anymore. First of all, I can run the same print without any problems on my Elmo CL-16 or Eiki RM-1. Second, when I inspect the print closely, there is nothing that suggest that this print is particularly dirty. I am waiting for a new bottle of film cleaner and I'm sure it will improve the print, but I don't think this print (or any of the other prints that have the same problem on the SSL) is in a terrible state. The third reason why I suspect that it has more to do with the projector than with the prints, is that this happens with about every 3 out of 4 prints in my collection.

However, the prints that don't have a problem have (generally) been cleaned more recently than the problem prints, which suggests that cleaning/lubricating should improve it.

But, I think I'd like to see if I can decrease the gate tension on the projector. I haven't got a service manual for this projector yet, so I guess I should hunt for a manual first.
Does anyone have a pdf vesion available? Or otherwise suggestions were to find a paper copy?

Thanks,

- Rob

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 08, 2004 09:37 PM

Every projector develops a "personality" over time as it wears and the films it runs wear. To tackle your first problem of the framing lever being pushed down, you can check that the gate plate isn't loose. If you open the lamp house you'll notice that the plate with the aperture is held in place by two 3mm nuts with springs and washers. The bottom one goes through the framing lever and allows you to slide the plate up and down. If these screws are loose that would produce a problem as you describe. Be careful, the thread is just preened onto the plate and if you over do it you'll pull the threaded rod from the plate and have to replace the whole piece.

You can check the pressure plate pressure with a little spring scale and pull it (with the lens removed) and see what reading you get. Compare it to your RM-1 and CL16 and see how it compares. If necessary you can adjust the springs but if you reduce tension (by cutting the springs) and find that's not the problem you'll again have to replace the parts.

Check the edge guides in the gate for dirt or gunk build up. Cleaning with an "orange stick" (never metal) can remove hard stuck on dirt/emlusion in the gate side guides (check both sides).

If you can still buy trichloroethelene in your country, you can dissolve a little bees wax in it and use it as a film cleaner and lubricant. Otherwise if you still have a dry cleaner that does chemical dry cleaning, beg for some perc and use it instead along with the bees wax.

Personally, I'd try rewinding the prints slowly on the bench and inspect and clean them through a velvet and see what happened.

John

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 10, 2004 06:57 AM

Hi, some other things maybe you could check the whole gate comes out for ease of cleaning maybe this is not tight in, and start at the front where the film starts and follow the film path all the way through to the end inspecting all sprocket wheels, rollers, etc. while I am no tech I have the same projector and have had no problems.... yet!
Maybe your film gave it a "touch of evil" give it a exorcisim [Razz]

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 10, 2004 08:09 AM

Thanks John and Jim!

John, your advice will keep me occupied during the holidays! I'll let you know what happens.

Jim,

I didn't realize that the whole gate comes out. I was only familiar with the SL-1 before I bought this machine. Those machines have a swing bracket for the lens holder and cleans very easy that way. I already thought that cleaning of the gate was pretty awkward. Could you tell me how to get the gate out? (or is it obvious when you look at it... I can't check now)

Thanks again!

- Rob

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 10, 2004 12:12 PM

if you have the same machine as i do and we are on the same line of thought the gate on these units pull from the top outward towards you and go back in by reversing the procedure i can send you a picture tonight of mine in hopes that it is like yours.

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 15, 2004 10:22 PM

"I didn't realize that the whole gate comes out. I was only familiar with the SL-1 before I bought this machine. Those machines have a swing bracket for the lens holder and cleans very easy that way."

What machine are you talking about? the SL and SSL use basically the same design of lens gate with the rotating selector switch closing the film path. In both the SSL and SL the pressure plate (that's the part closest to the lens that moves in and out) Comes out as Jim described.

The Swing out gate was used on the ST/RT/NT machines which were self-threaders not slot loaders. The basic parts of the gate remain the same, just the method of opening and closing it has changed.

I much prefer the SSL/SNT design since the lens holder does move and thus the alignment between the aperture plate and lens isn't always wearing.

John

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 17, 2004 08:46 AM

John,

I stand corrected. I misremembered the gate set-up for the SL. I was talking about the RM-series.
When you look at the gate of the SL/SSL it is quite obvious how to take the pressure plate out.
Well, it was clear that I had never properly cleaned it. The upper half was nice and clean, but the lower half is more difficult to reach from above and was quite dirty.
It didn't solve my original problem though. I will have a nice film cleaning session this holiday!

- Rob

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