8mm Forum: The Eiki and B&H connection

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Topic: The Eiki and B&H connection

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 02, 2005 03:47 PM

I've only learnt quite recently about the connection between Eiki and Bell & Howell - with Eiki making projectors under the B&H name - and I'd be interested in finding out more, if John or anyone else can offer information.

The manual for my 3592/AX states "The Eiki Company has purchased the AV/Video Div. of the Bell & Howell Company and has exclusive rights to manufacture and distribute the products of this division in the USA". Presumably, Eiki bought this division in order to sell into markets used to buying B&H machines. By the time of this happened (around 1986/1987?), would the production of all the pre-takeover B&H projectors have ceased, or did Eiki maintain the manufacture of any of these for a while?

I'm aware of that the projectors offered under both names were the 3585 (B&H) / SNT (Eiki) and the 3592/AX (B&H) / ENT (Eiki), and I've seen that there's a 3580 (B&H) on eBay that looks like a Eiki SSL. I don't suppose there were any others?

Are the B&H and Eiki versions of the same projectors identical, other than the B&H models being primarily black as opposed to the Eiki gold?

Finally, I wondered what SNT, ENT and AX stand for?

Thanks for any answers.
Adrian

[ January 02, 2005, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted January 03, 2005 06:36 AM

I've looked at notes I made on Eiki/Elf from John Whittles answers to some questions I asked, I do hope John comes and gives you fuller answers than I can.
From my notes I have the SNT as being Eiki's last design and being a 'slimline' version of the NT, but with improvements.
ENT bring the electronic control model.

I look forward to John and others telling you more.

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Regards,
David

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John A. Pommon
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: San Francisco, California 94131
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 03, 2005 04:29 PM

Hi Adrian, It's been years since I've owned a B & H 3580. I recall there was a difference in the design of the 3580's "number one film guide" and the guide on the Eiki SSL models. I replaced the B & H 3580's #1 film guide with an Eiki SSL Film Guide as the Eiki SSL guide was a definate design improvement. (although the one in the ebay photo looks the same - except the color). It was quite a while ago but I think it have might been the location of the nylon roller inside the arm of the film guide possibly in a different spot on the 3580 guide). The newer EIKI SSL guide really improved film handling when closing the function control after threadup.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 09, 2005 02:38 PM

Adrian,

Your information about Eiki purchasing the Bell & Howell Audio Visual line is correct. They were after all the US educational markets that Bell & Howell had sold to. Their purchased included all the parts that Bell & Howell had in Chicago. Later these parts were sold in two lots. The early (B&H up thru 399 design) to Steve at International Cinema in Miami and the 500 series and up to KMR Electronics in Santa Ana California.

Eiki did not manufacture any of the Bell & Howell designs at least in 16mm. I don't know if they did use any of the tooling for overhead and slide projectors and the "learning cards" that B&H was selling.

As for design variation between SSL and 3580 projectors, it should be remembered that Eiki made many "improvements" to the basic design over the years and they were only allowed to badge their machines as B&H for a limited period. I can't remember the exact date, but it was limited to a two or three year period after the purchase.

The B&H name has been licensed to many third party manufacturers and those VCRs and TVs were never part of the B&H family.

I don't know of ICECO got the 16mm stuff as part of the Eiki sale or if it was part of an earlier sale with all the 8mm and consumer stuff as well. ICECO continues to put Bell & Howell three sprocket machines (100-200-300 designs) on Ebay.

Lots of projector companies were thru multiple owners and designs before disappearing. Remember Ampro to Graflex to Singer to Telex to Gone. RCA to Viewlux to (forgot) to Gone. Revere to Wollensak (actually Revere bought Wollensak) to 3M to Gone.

John

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 10, 2005 06:17 AM

John

Thanks for that interesting and comprehensive reply. I did not know that Eiki would have only been able to use the B&H name for 2-3 years, but no doubt a longer period would have cost them more. I suppose also that by the mid-80s (and I think I read somewhere that it was 1986 that Eiki bought the B&H division) Eiki were well aware that 16mm was in decline and that the educational markets you mention - at least with regard to 16mm - would be worth very little soon.
I suppose this means that in situations where there were Eiki and B&H versions of the same projector, there are probably more of the Eikis in circulation. I must say that, in cosmetic terms, I'm pleased to have the B&H 3592/AX rather than the ENT, as I think the predominantly black colour really suits this machine and makes it more pleasing to the eye than the Eiki gold.

Adrian

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Adrian Winchester

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 10, 2005 01:41 PM

And FWIW department, there seem to have been lots more of the Bell & Howell 3592 than the Eiki ENT made. Don't know why unless there was some big governement contract (often a GSA contract sets prices for school districts and colleges). I do have an ENT-T which was the telecine version of the electronic control machine, but it was finished in typical Eiki colors.

The B&H paint scheme was very attractive and the electronic control machine is an excellent device.

John

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 11, 2005 06:25 AM

John,
That's interesting, although I expect the B&H Eikis may be more common in the USA than here in the UK, as even an experienced projector service person I know had never seen or heard of the 3592. Incidentally, do you know the significance of the AX of the 3592/AX? The company I bought mine from claimed that "the designation AX is a special military one. Some of the added features are ruggedized amplifier with low EMC emission. This means low noise and no interference into other electronic devices it is operated close to." I've just obtained a copy of the service manual and parts list, which makes it clear that there was both the 3592 and the 3592/AX, but there seems to be no explicit indication of what the difference was.

Thanks, Adrian

[ January 14, 2005, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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