8mm Forum: Where Do Emulsion Lines Come From?

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Topic: Where Do Emulsion Lines Come From?

Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 26, 2006 01:28 AM

I was watching an LPP feature this evening called Who Is Killing The Geart Chefs Of Euprope. The last ten minutes of reel two has this thick green emulsion line right down the center. What happens with these prints? Does someone have rock salt in their projector paths? Or does it get scratched on a cleaning machine? Maybe little Johnny got hold of dad's projector and decided to hold a dental pick against the rotating film just for fun. [Eek!]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 28, 2006 05:04 AM

Dan, Its one of those things which puzzles me too. I can only think that some of the people who used to show these films in schools etc etc had no idea how to clean their projectors or maybe they didnt know they needed to!

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted September 28, 2006 05:32 PM

I think its from bell and howells mainly. All of those nasty threader bits of metal etc, just a sprocket hole out can bump film onto one and some get bent etc too.
I remember going to a film club and both of thier machines misthreaded so I used to re-set them reels 1+2 on the machines before the show as they couldn`t seem to get their heads around it at all, but reel 3 or 4 were beyond my control and sat I could hear them catching and off if really out.OUUCH etc.
Best Mark.
Bell and Howell slot loaders( not the eiki ones rebadged) look very iffy too.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 28, 2006 09:03 PM

Mark, you mean a Bell & Howell can put an emulsion line down the center of the film? Wouldn't it leave sprocket tracks instead?

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted September 29, 2006 06:32 AM

Dan, from my experience it is mis-threaded or out-of-alignment projectors that cause severe emulsion scratching. ANY projector threaded incorrectly can scratch film. Film paths need to be very dirty to scratch with lots of build-up, this of course keeps rollers and guides from operating correctly.

Poor quality film with bad splices and torn sprockets causes film to lose its loops and without being re-set this causes scratching too. B & H late model projectors have an excellent manual loop re-setter.

I consider that the late model slot loader projectors from all companies went a long way to improving the condition of hire prints. Poor quality leaders did not effect the performance of threading as you simply looped it through and could by-pass any damage before clamping the film path closed. Most purists preferred manual thread models.

One of the most common causes of leader pile-ups was poor quality repairs by unqualified operators.

Bad spools (pinched) and poor rewinding habits (dragging the film against the edge) can also cause horizontal emulsion scratches or cross-scratching.

David

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted September 29, 2006 10:10 AM

With the amount of metal bits on a usual B+H threader anything is possible if misthreaded, and they often do even with good film some of them.
I think those late B+Hs were much kinder eiki`s anyway. I think most eiki`s rarely scratch at all.
Best Mark.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 30, 2006 05:38 AM

I have a B&H TQ1 with the Valve amplifier and I have to say that its very kind to film. All the metal guides have a recessed centre portion as well as the gate area so I cant understand how they would scratch badly if they were misthreaded. The one place for scratching on any 16mm machine and 8mm for that matter is any slippage at the sound drum (capstan). On the B&H's there is a problem where they two tensioner rollers on either side of the sound drum can sieze up with age due to the grease going hard and this causes the slippage I was talking of. This probelm can cause scratching but will also cause audible wow on the sound track.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 30, 2006 11:44 AM

I've been using B&H 1500 auto thread series projectors(3) for five years and have had no scratching problems. One in particular is dedicated to film photos for listings(thousands of hours use) and no problems at all. I do keep them fine tuned and clean. Also, I make sure all the films have smooth leaders for the auto thread.

There must be more to this emulsion line investigation. Calling inspector Whittle. [Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 30, 2006 05:54 PM

I still think that most of these scratches are caused by a build up of crap in the film path due to lack of cleaning.

Most of the prints in circulation are ex-library prints and therefore were used by people who probably never understood what cleaning a projector meant. [Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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