8mm Forum: Potential Newbie, Advice Please

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Topic: Potential Newbie, Advice Please

Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted November 25, 2006 06:05 AM

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Hi,

I've been making (not recently) and collecting 8mm films for more than <cough> years, but recently I've started to become unhappy with the quality of a lot of 8mm prints.

So... I'm considering thinning my collection and moving into 16mm.

This is a world I know nothing about. I've browsed a few websites, but I'd appreciate some guidance as to suitable first time projectors. Basically what are the do's and don'ts of 16mm buying?

For guidance, I'm in the UK and would like to keep my initial spend low (< £150 if possible) until I get a feel for 16mm.

I've come across an "Elf/Eiki ST/M" machine for £60 plus postage. Is this a reasonable deal? It's not on e-bay, but it looks like the one at auction number 2981668168.

thanks
Stewart

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 25, 2006 07:34 AM

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Thats about right and an OK machine if not used too much.
Did the seller mention belt condition etc, also you may need to replace the focus rubber but easy and cheap.
Certainly at that( £ 80 odd posted I imagine) its a good start up machine, you can also pick up really nice ones for around that.
Personally if you really are keen I`d hold out for a later NT1 brown version as less used as came in and sold in droves just as video was making them head fro the cupboards and store rooms and only £20-£40 more and far better value in real terms.
Someone on here may have one for that.
Anyway good luck, I know what you mean on super 8 qulity, if you can`t afford the big bucks stuff it can be a little dissapointing.
But on the dissapointing note also tread carefully on the 16mm front as its a bloomin minefield but can be very rewarding.
There are some spot on types like steve from the US on here.
Its great when you get good 16mm and there is good stuff about but stay steady and don`t rush in as the water can get icey.Seriously icey !!!!
best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted November 27, 2006 11:29 AM

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Thanks for the info Mark.

Unfortunately that machine has gone.

I approached a well known Cine retailer in Glasgow today enquiring about 2nd hand 16mm machines - starting price £400 for machines that on e-bay start at £50. Ok, they've been serviced, but then so have some e-bay machines in the £100 - £200 region.

This is the same shop that has some tatty looking Disney 400' Super 8 reels at £45!

I'd like to support local business, but sometimes you just can't.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 27, 2006 11:16 PM

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Hi, Stewart, and welcome to the forum. [Smile]

[Smile]

I know what you mean about the quality of some super 8s. I love super 8 and find it a challenge obtaining sharp focus prints. I also like the flexibility of being able to re record magnetic soundtracks and improving on them. I also have quite a collection of 16mm features and shorts. I find some educationals, especially the older ones a real treat.

As far as projectors, you can find great deals on eBay and these film forums. I think a lot of collectors purchase more than one of the same projector in order to borrow parts. After you've maintained the same projector for a period of time, you get to know it's workings. Personally I use B&Hs for 16mm and Elmos for super 8. A lot of people like Eikis and Elmo C-16s. Kodak Pageants too! [Smile]

[Smile]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 30, 2006 07:05 AM

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Hi Stewart, Paul Foster at foster films had and may still have a nice manual thread eiki later brown model for £99 thats in very nice order, you can`t go to far wrong at that, paul is a great chap and will always do you well. I`d think about giving that a go, probaly got a new belt etc too and avoiding any iffy sellers.
best wishes Mark

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 30, 2006 12:57 PM

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Whats this Mark- saying I'm an iffy seller eh? [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
Tony

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 30, 2006 07:04 PM

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Hi Tony Ha Ha, if Stewart buys from you he will be very happy.
What are you selling ??? was it the nice CL?.
That goes for people on here generally but some of the 16mm machines that go on ebay, ouch etc.
Best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 01, 2006 01:05 PM

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Yes, it's his 16CL. Despite your best attempts I'm going to risk a purchase [Smile]

[Smile]

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted December 01, 2006 04:14 PM

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Tony bought if off me Stewart, nice machines and very quiet.
Hope you enjoy it.
If you need a lens for a bigger pic drop me a message.
I`ve had quite a few cls though my hands.
Best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 02, 2006 07:39 AM

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Hi Mark,

Your PM box is full!

I've been looking at picture sizes vs focal lengths, and the 50mm that comes with the CL is going to be too long.

What other lenses do you have?

Out of curiosity, what scope lenses are suitable, and what's their usual selling price?

thanks
Stewart

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted December 02, 2006 08:00 AM

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Hi Stewart, I have a 25mm one for sale, there is a chap interested who I gave first nodd to but not heard back yet.
I`m retreating to std 8 silents of all things on the whole.
Thanks for letting me know about the message pile up, cleaned it out abit, there were messages in there from the deep and murky past.
Ive also got serious email woes at the moment so if anyone is trying to get through to me keep trying.
Hope you enjoy the CL, lovely to use.
Best Mark.

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 03, 2006 08:03 AM

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Mark, check your PM.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted December 03, 2006 03:52 PM

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Hi Stewart sent a message that should show my email address.
Happy cine`ing.
Mark.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 03, 2006 05:17 PM

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quote:
an "Elf/Eiki ST/M" machine

I would suggest that you look for a later machine than the ST/M series. That design was the first Eiki self-thread (after the failure of the S series) and dates back to the early 1970s. It was replaced by the RT which has a better amp/lamp transformer. Then the SL/NT series and finally the SSL/SNT series. Look for the last group because of improvments to the belts and take-up and rewind as well as better focus and gates. The last series also turned up as the 3000 series Bell & Howell line which was made by Eiki.

The early machines will easily cost you as much as the later machines when you replace the arm belts and motor belts once.

John

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Stewart McSporran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 04, 2006 12:53 PM

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Thanks for the notes John.

I've gone for the 16-CL; it seems to be a pretty decent machine by all accounts.

Stewart

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
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Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted December 09, 2006 05:34 AM

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Stewart, I'm a CL user and the basic lenses are:
12.5 mm, 20 mm, 38 mm, 50 mm, 75 mm. I think there's also a 100 mm.
On the 20, 38 and 50 you may attach an optical add-on which is either a reversible lens that will give you 0.8x/1.2x or a zoom extension (0.8-1.2).
Isco also made a beautiful zoom lens (30-70) but hard to find.
If you want to stick to Elmo lenses, the best scope lens is the Elmoscope II, which can be screwed on top of the primer. There's also a Kowa lens (easier to find) very similar to the Elmoscope.
Depending on the state of each lens, prices vary between $150 and $300.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 12, 2006 06:00 PM

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In the FWIW department, there were two Elmoscope lenses, the Elmoscope I and the Elmoscope II. Both were "D" size and screwed into the front of the prime lens or could be used with an optional holder. Kowa made one lens (just a 16H engraved for Elmo) and Sankor made other other (just a 16D engraved for Elmo much as they did for Singer and Victor).

John

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