8mm Forum: 16mm sound advice request from a newbie

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Topic: 16mm sound advice request from a newbie

Tony Horgan
Junior
Posts: 8
From: London, England
Registered: Feb 2007

posted February 20, 2007 04:55 AM

Hi all,

I've just joined the forum and was wondering if anyone could set me straight on a few things. Bear with me, please. First, a bit of background, then a question about 16mm gear...

About 20 years ago I got myself a Super 8 camera and projector. I used this to make little home movies around the house, on holidays and that sort of thing. I liked a few things about it in particular:

1. The short length of Super 8 films meant that each movie was concise and very watchable, and also had the effect of making me quite disciplined as to what I was filming (unlike those eternal home movies you see on video where someone just records absolutely nothing happening for an hour, just because they can).
2. The moment when the processed film came back in the post and you watched it for the first time.
3. Setting up the projector and watching films back with family and friends on special occasions, curtains drawn, lights down, everyone focussed on the film - watching a video or DVD doesn't come close!
4. I could record sound and pictures on the same film with no messing around, no editing or any of that business.

Then, as you know, Kodak discontinued the Super 8 sound film. I did source a couple of out-of-date reels, but even then I've not managed to find anyone that can process them. (Any help on that would be appreciated by the way - I'm London-based)

So, silent Super 8 doesn't do it for me, and I don't want to got to the trouble of recording soundtracks and dubbing them or editing after the event.

Finally, here comes the question!

Q: Can I do what I used to do on Super 8 on 16mm equipment?
To summarise:
* Can I get a fairly compact 16mm camera that will record a soundtrack on the film?
* Can I get film stock for such a camera?
* Can I get that film stock processed?
* Can I get a projector that will show the result, with sound?

Thanks for reading [Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2007 05:32 AM

Tony, Welcome to the forum. There are plenty of experts on the forum who I'm sure will be able to help you as and when needed. Hopefully you will also have some input.
Enjoy [Smile]

I dont think there were ever any 16mm cameras made which were capable of recording sound direct to the film. Most cameras were designed for sync pulse where the sound was recoded onto tape and then transferred back at a later date either to a mag stripe or after editing etc back to an Optical sound track.

You do see 16mm cameras and 16mm sound projectors for sale here on the forum from time to time and of course you can also check out ebay where your bound to find these items.

16mm film stocks are still available so there are no problems buying and getting it processed.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2007 08:34 AM

Berndt-Bach Inc. of Hollywood for many years manufactured Auricon 16mm sound-on-film cameras. Models were made that would record magnetic sound on pre-striped 16mm single perf film as well as models that would record optical sound on single perf 16mm stock in perfect sync with the picture. Models were available that would record variable area or variable density soundtracks directly on the film in the camera. Television stations used the Auricon cameras for news in the 1950's and 1960's. These are available from time to time on eBay.

[ February 20, 2007, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Kenneth Horan ]

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Ken Horan

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 20, 2007 10:19 AM

I bet they go for high prices? Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jeff Taylor
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Chatham, NJ
Registered: Aug 2005

posted February 20, 2007 10:23 AM

Any of the Auricon's I've seen for sale have been magnetic sound models, or opticals converted to magnetic, and magnetic striped film isn't around any longer so that somewhat limits their value and utility.

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Jeff

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Tony Horgan
Junior
Posts: 8
From: London, England
Registered: Feb 2007

posted February 21, 2007 04:13 AM

Thanks guys. So maybe if I could get hold of an Auricon that does optical sound, that might fit the bill. Any other comments appreciated.

Cheers!

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 24, 2007 06:34 PM

Well getting an Auricon with optical sound to work might be a bit of a challenge. The amps were run on battery power and were tube type so they had a battery for the B+ stage of the amp, the filament of the tubes and one for the exposure lamp in the galvo. There were basically three types of sound tracks: A unilateral area track (one modulated edge) the most common, a VD track and a unilateral with a shutter for noise reduction.

You also have to set the proper exposure for the sound track and the picture and since color film is dye only, the optical sound track will sound noisy. Old Kodachrome had a different cyan dye that blocked more of the infrared and sounded better than current color films. And forget about trying to get a good exposure with color negative.

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Thomas Powys-Keck
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Clapham Village,West Sussex,England
Registered: Oct 2006

posted March 05, 2007 04:30 PM

Hello everyone,I own an Auricon Cine-Voice 16mm sound-on-film camera.Its a model cm-72a-fm,runs at 25fps,filmagnetic.You can lug around a ton of batteries,or it will run from a transformer on 115 volts 35 watts at 50 cycles.It has an Arriflex 400ft motorised magazine,as well as its own 100ft magazine.It does work,but i only found one roll of film years ago.Now i use it for silent home movies,it can still be used for sound but i have no idea how to do it.You need to be Superman to pick it up,and balancing it on ones shoulder takes some doing.Just thought i would let you know that an Auricon still lives in England!I also use a Beaulieu R16 Automatic camera,i use a tape recorder for the sound,have the film processed,transfer the sound onto magnetic film via my Siemens double band projector.The projector syncs the film and sound automatically.Its a great way to watch home movies with sound.Regards to all.Tom (ps i tried to load a picture of the camera but it didn't work,wonder what went wrong?)I took Kevins advice and tried 10 times to upload a picture but it keeps saying my user name and password is wrong.If any one wants pictures of the Auricon or the Siemens Double Band projector i can e mail them to you,regards to all Tom

[ March 06, 2007, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Thomas Powys-Keck ]

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Tony Horgan
Junior
Posts: 8
From: London, England
Registered: Feb 2007

posted March 07, 2007 08:01 AM

Thanks. Doesn't sound like it's going to be a very practical solution, but I'll keep investigating. [Smile]

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 07, 2007 03:33 PM

Tony,

The only problem with the filmagnetic auricons is you can't get rawstock anymore, your only hope is optical and then you have the problems I described. While Auricon did make a battery eliminator for the Cine Voice amp, they are hard to find. The batteries are even harder to find since they date to early 1950s styles. Most outfits retrofitted to magnetic by the late 50s early 60s. I have an Auricon Pro which takes a 200 load and has a shuttered area track, but I haven't been able to find batteries to even begin to rebuild the amp (that's the other problem these are of such an age you'll have to re-cap the tube amps) much less try and exposure/printing test and getting 16mm black and white developed anymore is very difficult.

Just enter into the Auricon if you want sound with your eyes wide open, it'll be a challenge.

John

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