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Author Topic: Elmo 16-CL Rubber Rollers
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 03, 2008 04:56 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I now have two Elmo 16-CL (optical) projectors and am asking for members comments on the rubber rollers which this machine uses.

On another site I read that these rollers can last a long time if maintained. For this the owner (American) used to use Rubbing Alcohol. A trip to Google reveals a number of advertisers but they only seem to be actually offering Isopropyl Alchohol but none seem to have that secret ingredient, an oil.

I tried in my local Boots branch but they were no help.

The topic also stated that the user also applied Filmrenew to his rollers with a Q-Tip after about each 10 hours of operation. This apparentately deep cleans the rollers of any chemicals left behind from films.

Can members offer any comments on maintaining their Elmo rollers please?

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Maurice

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted October 03, 2008 10:22 AM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
Over here rubbing alcohol is just isoproyl with a little water and fragrance. Alcohol can "dry out" rubber, so while it's good for removing magnetic stripe residue, it's not the best "cleaner".

I would look to an electronics supply source for "rubber re-nue" or "roller repair" which are sold under a number of names. What it does is clean and remove any oxidized material from the surface of the roller and provide a new "grip" to the surface.

MG Chemicals makes "Rubber Renue" catalog number 408A-100ml; Techspray makes "Roller Rejuvenator/Platen Cleaner" cat number 1612-250. The MG Chemicals contains Dimethylbenzene and Methyl Salicylate and the product is considered flammable. The Techspray product contains D-Limonene and Chlorinated Parafin.
(websites: www.mgchemicals.com and www.techspray.com)

These are just examples, there are other similar products for rubber treatments on office machines, tape recorders, etc.

John

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted October 03, 2008 09:55 PM      Profile for Tony Stucchio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Will these products also help the rubber disc drives on Eumig 800 series (Dual 8) projectors? They are notorious for wearing out and causing the machine to not maintain a constant speed.

Thanks!

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted October 04, 2008 06:28 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I`d have thought the best approach was just to leave them alone or if mucky a little natural weak soappy water on a cotton bud.

I think the rollers on your latest CL are new anyway Maurice so I wouldn`t mess with those.

Best Mark.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

- posted October 04, 2008 09:52 AM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For rubber rollers, I use Caig CaiCleen RBR.

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=RBR100L-2&cat=CLEANING&subcat=&prodClass=CHEMICALS&mfg=Caig+Labs&search=0&off=

It cleans and rejuvenates and is very popular for tape recorder maintenance. I am using it for rubber parts on my reel-to-reel and my film machines.

Caig also makes a variety of circuit cleaners and such.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted October 05, 2008 06:55 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
There are lots of various rubber cleaning/renew products. They should clean glaze or dirt off the rubber. Material that is craced or dried out is a no-go with anything I know of. But add the CaiClean to the list. Always check the MDS for what the chemical composition is on any of these products. Some are much harsher than others and you should judge accordingly.

John

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

- posted October 09, 2008 05:13 PM      Profile for Josef Grassmann   Author's Homepage   Email Josef Grassmann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Almost every Elmo 16CL we receive nowadays has soft, very sticky rubber on all 5 rollers.
There is no chance to improve them with rubber cleaner.

We remove sticky rubber from cores and put new rubber on and grind them to required diameter. If bearings are worn, new bearings are pressed on. Shafts have to be regrinded and polished if they show rough surfaces.

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Peter Eastland
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK
Registered: Sep 2008

- posted October 14, 2008 04:19 PM      Profile for Peter Eastland   Email Peter Eastland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello maurice thanks for the reply on the tubes for B&H. message board has now gone so not able to say thank you. My dad apreciates the reply. Regarding the rubber rollers it would depend on the rubber type as to what would be best to clean them with. I do not have any experience with projector rubber rollers but aything that affects the surface of the rubber could lead to reduced life or transfer of rubber to the film. Softening if basic rubber type is not resistant to the solvent or hardening if plasticisers are leached out. The IPA diluted with water 50/50 may be gentle enough.(clean gently with bud). Water will remove soluble dirt and IPA more greasy deposits.(vodka will give you a 40% ethanol mix). Some of the chemicals mentioned in the off the shelf products appear quite aggressive to rubber and humans. Hope this helps

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 15, 2008 04:04 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter

Thank you for your reply. Glad the valve info helps.

There seem many different ideas about the Elmo rollers. I have concluded that as my Service Engineer says he will be able to re-rubber the rollers (in due course!) then it seems pointless in applying different compounds in order to wield off the ages of time!

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Maurice

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

- posted December 12, 2012 01:12 PM      Profile for Gerald Santana   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rather than start a new thread, I'm bringing this one back. I just started to clean up a 16-CL last night, everything was fine until I went to clean the rubber rollers...they turned to goo. [Frown]

Where can I find new ones? The older ones were melting into my cotton swab, which turned jet black when I applied a little more pressure to get dirt out. I can't run a print on this machine until that's been fixed.

Any ideas?

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted December 12, 2012 02:27 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I highly recommend Larry Urbanski http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELMO-16mm-16-CL-16-AL-ROLLER-KIT-set-of-4-ROLLERS-/230892381659?pt=US_Movie_Slide_Projectors&hash=item35c24225db

I bought mine a few months back and I installed them myself with great support from Larry.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

- posted December 13, 2012 01:11 PM      Profile for Gerald Santana   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice! I'll get those rollers...Muchas Gracias.

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

- posted January 08, 2013 12:30 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey everybody I keep hearing horror stories about Elmo Channel Loading 16-CL Optical 16mm Film Movie Projector rubber rollers? Is this a good projector to run or what?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted January 08, 2013 12:41 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Laksmi
It is a great projector, as it is very easy to work on and it is very gentle on shrunken film, but as you have learned the pesky rubber rollers are its Achilles heel. But as janice pointed out they are very easy to replace.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted January 08, 2013 01:25 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino is correct Laksmi...The Elmo 16CL is a terrific projector...fo r me it's a keeper. Replacing the rollers is a snap and new rollers will last you a very long time. I just wish it had a lens that I could fill my screen...but the image is super sharp and the sound great too.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted January 08, 2013 02:22 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice if you look around they make 2 inch 1.5 inch, 1inch, 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch lenses for the elmo. You'll fill the screen.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted January 08, 2013 03:01 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's good to know Dino. The lens I have is a 50mm...I've seen a 38mm lens on Ebay. I'm not that knowledgeable about lenses. Does the length of the lens determine the size of the projected image?

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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John Hermes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: La Mesa, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2008

- posted January 08, 2013 05:32 PM      Profile for John Hermes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the focal length determines the image size (in addition to distance from screen). A 25mm lens will have twice the picture width of a 50mm lens at the same distance (and four times the picture area). Keep in mind, all things equal, you will lose brightness as image size increases.

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John Hermes

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 10, 2013 12:20 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Maurice
I had an Elmo CL with exactly this problem with the rubber rollers. An easy remedy is to remove the old rubbers and replace them with 'O' rings. You need to find the correct size and you will need 4 or 5 for each roller. Quite easy to fit and they work perfectly so long as you make sure they are not too thick, or they will protrude over the outer rim edges of the roller and the film will not follow the correct path. Simples

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

- posted January 16, 2013 11:14 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How do I get the controls and motor nobs off to get to the rollers?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted January 16, 2013 11:35 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Laksmi...you shouldn't have to remove the knobs to get to most of the rollers...just unscrew the two screws on the face plate. However, if you need to remove the inner plate to replace the one roller with the arm in back of the knob plate just pull the knob off and you will also need to remove the two screws on that plate.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

- posted January 17, 2013 12:43 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info and pics Janice Look at this picture I used fish tank tubing to repair the rollers . -

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How do I get the last roller off ? The one after the sound hub? The one next to the bigger spring number (1) roller

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted January 17, 2013 01:19 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your model looks a little different than mine Laksmi...so you will have to pull off the knobs and remove the cover plate. You have to be careful with that #1 roller. You have to remove the arm that it is attached to see how it fits together at the base of the arm. There is also a spring that you will have to remove and reattach. It might be helpful to have the service manual I think the manual is available in the manual section of this site...if not pm me with your email address.

I'm not in agreement with your DIY solution. The thickness of the rollers has to be calibrated exactly. You might be saving money in the short term...but you are taking a big risk at potentially ruining the projector feed and your precious film.

I received a lot of expert assistance at the http://www.16mmFilmtalk.com forum. You might get more specific instructions on replacing the rollers.

[ January 17, 2013, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Laurent Daudelin
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 17, 2019 07:32 PM      Profile for Laurent Daudelin   Email Laurent Daudelin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anybody knows a source for new or reconditioned rollers? There is only one guy on eBay selling a set but at $45, I think he's trying to make a quick buck...

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted June 17, 2019 08:05 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Laurent...I buy new rollers that are made to exacting Elmo specifications from Urbanski Films:

http://www.urbanskifilm.com/elmo.html

There is also a YouTube video showing how to install the rollers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSqzgKn09vk&t=6s

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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