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Author Topic: Whats the Most affordable way to Shoot 16mm Please
Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted May 23, 2009 09:20 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone know much about a basic stock and costs etc and basic cheap camera please.
Thanks Mark.

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Robert Lewis
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted May 24, 2009 03:31 AM      Profile for Robert Lewis   Email Robert Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark.

I recently (a few months ago) decided to get into filming in 16mm and got a very nice Bell and Howell H16 Rex 4 camera. I found that camera aspects of the interest were easy to research, but on the stock and processing side I was disappointed.

This is largely down to Kodak. In this Country we are treated very badly by the Company.

In relation to colour, there is virtually no availability of reversal stock in 100ft rolls (which all Bolex cameras take), and it is almost impossible to get it processed here. It is possible to purchase 100ft rolls of reversal stock from the USA or Germany, but I have not found a processing laboratory in this Country where you can get it processed. If you have a camera which takes the 400 foot rolls you can purchase reversal stock here, but I understand that even so it is very difficult to get it processed here. I am informed by various film stock suppliers that Kodak will simply not supply 100ft rolls of reversal stock in this Country notwithstanding the fact that they supply it in the States and in Germany. You can, of course, get reversal stock in 100ft rolls processed in the States and Germany, but by the time you work out the total costs involved it is quite expensive.

The position in relation to negative colour stock is a little better in the sense that it can be purchased here, but processing 100ft rolls is very difficult and in order to project a film it has to be printed on to positive stock, and that involves added cost.

The position in relation to Black and White stock is somewhat easier, although it took me some time to establish the best way forward. B & W stock can be purchased in both reversal and negative form in 100ft rolls as well as 400ft rolls, but I found the best way of getting the stock processed is to use "no.w.here". They were most helpful, I found, and they will process 100ft of reversal stock as a negative and then provide a print for projection for £30 if you are not a member, or £20 if you become a member. They will, of course, also process negative stock and provide a print for projection (costs are the same). They will also supply negative stock at a keen price, and that is reduced if you are a member.

Membership costs £110 per annum, and you are able to to use some of the equipment yourself provided you have been trained, and so you are able to reduce costs I believe. I found their contact to be most friendly and helpful.

Again, you can get B & W stock processed in the States and Germany, but in Germany, for example, VAT is 19% and shipping costs are added expenses.

I hope you find this information helpful.

I would emphasise that I am very new to 16mm filming, and there might be ways forward which I have not discovered. If you find any I do hope you or any other member of the Forum will share the information.

Regards.

BOB LEWIS

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted May 24, 2009 04:12 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I have a Bolex. They are solid reliable, give good results and on ebay almost every day.

I shoot Kodak reversal in 100ft rolls can't recall the stock number. The Kodak site has all the info. you need. Reversal is the stock to shoot and process from a cost point, you do need to be spot on with your exposures however as most 16mm cameras that are affordable do not have in built light meters.

David

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Simon Wyss
Film Handler

Posts: 78
From: Äsch, Switzerland
Registered: Apr 2009


 - posted May 24, 2009 04:58 AM      Profile for Simon Wyss   Email Simon Wyss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert: “I recently (a few months ago) decided to get into filming in 16mm and got a very nice Bell and Howell H16 Rex 4 camera.”
Are you certain you mean Bell & Howell? I guess it's a Bolex-Paillard what you have. Only for clarity

My advice in view of cheap filming is

1 Black and white. Reversal stock is cheaper than the negative-positive process that implies printing. The only true reversal film left on the market is Fomapan R, ISO 100, of Foma Bohemia in the Czech Republic. Contrary to the Kodak films it has a colourless base. http://www.foma.cz/Upload/foma/prilohy/F_pan_R_en.pdf
2 If negative-positive try to develop yourself. There is the russian Lomo processing kit that allows you to be independent from labs. One of the sellers: http://www.kahlfilm.de/content.php?nav=33&productid=68
3 You can shoot negative alone and have it scanned. That leads you away from the real filmmaking but is common practice today.
4 Camera? The most compact of all were the Bell & Howell Autoload, loaded with 50-ft. cartridges. Next comes the Eumig C 16, then the Beaulieu R 16 spring. Bolex offer you a lot of tricks. A Bell & Howell Filmo is most rugged. A Canon Scoopic is automatic and straightforward. You may find yourself a Mitchell 16, a monster of a camera, but they sometimes surface rather cheaply.
5 If that is all too expensive, go 8.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted May 24, 2009 06:29 AM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find Spectra Film & Video (Google them) in the states to provide a great package of 100D film and processing. Straight forward and easy.

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Robert Lewis
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted May 24, 2009 04:04 PM      Profile for Robert Lewis   Email Robert Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Simon (Wyss). I did indeed mean Bolex. I can't think why I should have typed Bell and Howell!! I sometimes wonder whether my keyboard has a will of its own.

It looks like a most helpful thread is underway here.

I did look at Spectra when I was researching costs, etc., for colour reversal stock and processing, and they are very competitive. The problem is that three trips across the Atlantic and VAT and Import Duty have a marked impact on the purchase and original processing costs.

Because of this, whilst I "got to know my camera" I made a conscious decision to use black and white stock and I have been very pleased with my results so far.

Dwaynes Photo (also in the States) also offers a good and competitive service in relation to Ektachrome 100D (7285), but again added costs are significant. I am not sure whether they supply B & W reversal film, however.

The German suppliers suffer the handicap of 19% VAT, expensive shipping costs and a poor Euro to the £ exchange rate. Or perhaps it is we who suffer the handicap. However, there is no liability for Import Duty.

All of this simply brings me back to the point I made in my first posting: Why oh why can we not get supplies and processing in this Country of a product which is readily available in other Countries.

At the end of the day, I guess commercial decisions are at the root of the difficulty, and I guess too that sooner or later I will find the call of colour irresistable. I shall just have to dig deeper in my pocket in order to satisfy my interest.

Bob.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted May 24, 2009 07:21 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the good and interesting advice chaps. I`m very tempted, but also as have a super 8 camera a Cosina in the pipeline I just wonder if K64 via Blue Audio, Bart on here might be worth a go really !!!!

There`s something very appealing about these older 16mm camera`s, but it did just occur to me my 16mm projector only has a two blade shutter.

But there is still serious temptation, shame its not easier in the UK.

Does anyone know of a UK developer source ???

Best and Thanks Mark.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted May 25, 2009 04:25 AM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Super 8; the easiest way and cheapest is to buy the film from 7dayshop.com You won't find it cheaper. Then, send to Dwaynes in the USA. Again, their service is very reasonably priced and I normally wait till I've got two or three films to send all at once to save on shipping.

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Thomas Powys-Keck
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Clapham Village,West Sussex,England
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted May 25, 2009 06:02 PM      Profile for Thomas Powys-Keck   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark,is the lens any good? You could try this company in the UK,but they are expensive i think,i send all my colour reversal film to Dwaynes in the USA,they have always been very good to me.Film & Photo Ltd
13 Colville Rd
London W3 8BL
UK

They develop colour reversal,in 16mm and 35mm,in fact they do all types of movie film.
Regards Tom. [Smile]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted May 25, 2009 06:06 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom, sorry my memory, I`ll mail you.
Thanks for the UK tip too.

Best Mark.

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted May 26, 2009 06:39 AM      Profile for David Pannell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom,

Just wondering, but I wasn't aware whether you were at the BFCC in Ealing on the 16th.

As I'm sure you know, there are quite a few of us dotted around Sussex, so it might be nice to get up a contingent for the next convention in October.

There's Mike Peckham in Worthing, Mark Williams in Bognor, Rob Koeling in Brighton, Kevin Clark just over the border in Kent, and myself from Southwater, - plus anyone else whom I have inadvertently forgotten - apologies!

Your recent posts, I am sure, have had the effect of rousing interest in your obviously fantastic film collection - what an inheritance!

Hopefully looking forward to some more of your posts on the Forum and who knows, we may all be able to meet up one day.

Cheers,

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Jim Carlile
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Burbank, California, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted June 27, 2009 04:04 AM      Profile for Jim Carlile   Email Jim Carlile   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The best, most cheap and fun way to shoot 16mm?

That's an easy one. Get an old, decent quality non-reflex Bolex, one that takes double perf if you want-- because no one wants them any more. Then either go down to the Kodak distribution center or go online and buy a 400 foot core of B/W intermediate double perf or acetate print film-- you can get the print film for about $50, high contrast for a little more.

Then, carefully rewind it twice back and forth onto the 100-foot spool (in the dark) and shoot away. You can process it yourself or find a friendly lab to do it.

Done this way it is a cheap hobby and very gratifying.

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