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Topic: Bell & Howell TQ2 Problem.

Kevin Wardle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Durham - England
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 18, 2009 01:09 PM

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Hi,

I just got a Bell & Howell TQ2 and I have a Problem with the sound. When it's in normal projection mode the sound is very fluttery and sounds like it's in water. I have tried pressing the loop former however, it doesn't do anything. I didn't get a manual with it, so I might be missing something, can anyone help?

Many thanks, Kevin.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 18, 2009 02:40 PM

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Start the easy way, change the exciter lamp and see what happens.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted August 18, 2009 02:54 PM

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Hi Kevin, sent you a mail so we can talk on the phone, its probably putting one or two sprocket holes too many between the top of the sprocket after the gate and then the underneath of it again after the sound head so loose around the sound drum.

Run it and see if the film is being tensioned OK around the sound drum and it is tight around it and not looseish around before and after it.

Look at the sprocket after the gate, the film runs over it around the sound drum and then again under it.

Go to the clip on that under side of the sprocket after the film has been around the sound drum and flip it open and work one sprocket hole over the sprocket away towards the take up direction if you will so less film is now in the sound drum area then re-close the clip.
One may do it,usually does if the tensioner is OK.

Good luck and keep the faith, Best Mark.

PS saw JM,s post after I did mine, the lamp is worth a go as well if you have one.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

posted August 18, 2009 04:53 PM

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Sorry guys, changing the exciter lamp will make no difference.

First, make sure the two tension rollers (next to the sound drum), are totally free to move up and down. In fact, they should quickly "snap" back down when lifted. If not, take off the projector's back, locate where these arms are in the rear, and give a focussed spray of WD40 penetrative spray (gold can). Finally you moving these rollers up and down quite quickly and firmly for a few minutes, should loosen them up. Also, the rollers themselves need to spin freely. If not, take off the holding screw (in the center) and place a tiny drop of oil inside the roller, so that it will spin freely on the shaft.

Make sure also that the sound drum is free to turn.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2009 06:58 AM

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Simons spot on. It will probably be the 2 swinging tensioner rollers. The grease normally dries out and goes hard. To sort this out that section of the machine normally needs to be stripped down to get the mechanism behind.

Dont run any precious film with it like that as it will be slipping on the soound drum and will cause scratching.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Kevin Wardle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Durham - England
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 19, 2009 07:43 AM

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Thanks guys, thats very helpful. Anyone know who I can get to do a service? Or, can I do it myself?

Many thanks again.

Kevin.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

posted August 19, 2009 08:46 AM

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Sadly Sound & Screen Service run by Hugh Bell was the last place really. When he died in 2003, so did his company. There are a few others, but are lesser known. Contact me on smcconway @ hotmail. com

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Kevin Wardle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Durham - England
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 19, 2009 01:08 PM

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I took a look at the two tension rollers near the sound drum and they are slack, when moving up and down. Are they ment to be like that? I know that on my other machine when the film is round the drum that the film tightens them..

Kevin

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2009 03:08 PM

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Kevin, You should be able to move those rollers apart by hand when the machine is in standstill. The fact that the film is slack round the drum is a very good indication that they are not free enough. Its not so much that they move up and down they should be able to move apart or close up.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted August 19, 2009 06:02 PM

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Did you try moving one sproket worth of film out like in my above post Kevin, did that help at all.
If one too many or so gets through into that area you can get wow etc beyond the tension rollers coping with it.
Worth a try.
The Machine looks nice so worth persevering.

Best Mark.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 20, 2009 09:59 AM

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Unless the machine has been pulled to pieces and the sprockets are out of sync its not likely to be the cause. Its invariably lack of movement between the 2 rollers a problem that most B&H machines suffer from eventually.

Assuming the machine was ok I would put money on stiffness of those rollers being the problem. They must be free to move up and down and be able to close together as well as move apart from each other and it this latter movement they are probably not doing very well due to dried out grease.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 20, 2009 02:23 PM

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quote:
I took a look at the two tension rollers near the sound drum and they are slack, when moving up and down. Are they ment to be like that? I know that on my other machine when the film is round the drum that the film tightens them..

No there should be tension on the film. It could be you have a problem with the release of the autothread mechanism. The tension rollers should be moved to their extreme position for threadings and then released when the loop formers are pulled back. If that doesn't happen then there is no tension on the sound drum and the film is just "flapping in the wind" around the drum giving you the watery pick up.

Make sure you don't have some cam or lever that stuck and not releasing and resetting on the threading mechanism.

John

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted August 20, 2009 02:36 PM

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I,ve known the odd one over the years put one sprocket hole too many into that area than the rollers could cope with.

Also need to watch the loops above and below the gate are not to large or/and catching on the threading metal ware that can tend to bend around a bit also after the last sprocket.

I think maybe most 16mm film Markings are due to Bell and Howell autothreadings and the so so slot loaders as well.

Best Mark.

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

posted August 21, 2009 05:24 AM

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Greetings
If the two tension rollers near the sound drum Just might need to be cleaned and re lubed.

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Kevin Wardle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Durham - England
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 23, 2009 12:41 PM

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Hi Guys,

Just got this from I guy I know:

Sounds like the soundhead tensioning rollers may have seized, this is a common problem with the B&H machines and its usually (but not always) a big job to carry out, could have a quick look at it to let you know what the problem is.
When you set the auto thread lever the two rollers open up, when you release the auto thread mechanism the two rollers should close up again, if this does not happen, it means the rollers are tight and would involve removing the sound head from the mechanism completely, (Transformer has to be removed ).

So you guys are spot on thanx! [Wink]

[Wink]

Best regards, Kevin

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 23, 2009 01:02 PM

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Best of luck stripping it down Kevin. That area is fairly similar on most of their models so have a look at the manuals section for a service manual to download. This should help you to get to those pesky rollers to strip them and re lube them.

Glad we could help [Smile]

[Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Kevin Wardle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Durham - England
Registered: Jul 2009

posted August 23, 2009 05:39 PM

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Thanks, Kevin. I hope I get it sorted. In the meantime, I always have my old Bell and Howell 600 series projector. It's old but it treats films very well indeed! [Wink]

[Wink]

Thanks, Kevin

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