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Author Topic: Advice sought
Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 04, 2013 02:19 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last night I was screening a 16mm feature I just bought from Paul Foster. The first reel had what I believe is called wow and flutter. The manual said to depress the loop restorer: so today I rescreened reel 1, when the same thing happened I pressed the loop restorer, the sound was fine, but now I got a jumpy picture. I tried the restorer again but it made no difference. First time around the image was fine. Afterwards I projected a couple of shorts and the image was steady.

There is no wear to the sprockets, and I had already taken up Maurice's suggestion a few days ago about cleaning the pull down claws. Anyone have an idea of what the problem is?

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted August 04, 2013 02:26 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What brand is it? I have the exact same issue with a Bell and Howell Filmosound projector. Never figured out what's wrong.

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 04, 2013 02:28 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert,it's possible that the print has shrunk. Is this an old print?
Funnily enough though, I once had a Bauer P8 which did this with some prints but not with all. Those prints ran fine on other projectors.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 04, 2013 04:27 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ernie, it's a bell & Howell 655, a forerunner of the TQ1.
Michael, the print looks fine, but I had to replace the Kodak white leader as it had warped and would not feed into the machine.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 04, 2013 10:35 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've got two 655QE and they are fine projectors. Wow and flutter are two separate entities, wow is low frequency instability, and flutter is high frequency stutter.

The two sounds are quite different, wow sounds like an old 78 record playing on a turntable that has trouble revolving at a constant speed, flutter is a sort of chatter (for want of a better word.)

It could be a problem with the auto thread. When the projector is running film, look at the two stabilising sound rollers. They should be virtually still, if you have wow the rollers may be gently moving up and down in sympathy with the sound.

Flutter could be caused by a bottom loop from the gate which is too small and the film is just rubbing on the auto-set roller assembly, but with not enough pressure to operate it. Or the auto-set mechanism is jammed and not operating as it should.

Unclip the side door and watch the film moving through the mechanism. If either of the points above are occurring then stop, remove the film, and lace manually.

Even if, as Michael says, the print is warped, the Bell & Howell should be able to handle it.

To check if the print is warped put it on your rewind and watch as the film goes from spool to spool. You will soon see if the film is warped.

--------------------
Maurice

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 05, 2013 10:12 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info Maurice, have replaced the Kodak white leader, this is a TV print, and someone had also inserted white leader between the countdown and the start of the film.
Will project again tomorrow night after first trying out a short, and report my findings.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 06, 2013 02:22 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tonight I projected a short and everything was fine, then I got out the reel I have been having problems with; the sound was fine but the picture is jumpy, which as I said, it was not the first time I projected it. Instead of viewing the complete reel, I put into reverse with the lamp on and the image was rock steady. Tried again, jumpy forward, steady in reverse. As I said, on close examination there is no sprocket wear. Does any of the information give a clue to what the problem could be. I usually lubricate films before I show them but have not done this print yet.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 06, 2013 02:45 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steady in reverse, jumpy in forward - this is exactly the problem I had with my Bauer. I never quite got to the bottom of it. However, the prints in question ran perfectly fine in another projector.
Have you tried running it in another machine?

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 06, 2013 03:05 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only a manual thread 601. Can't figure out why there is a problem with just this reel.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 06, 2013 03:13 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, the reel is doing this on two different machines? Sorry, you weren't clear, Robert.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 06, 2013 03:48 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I haven't tried it on the other machine.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 06, 2013 05:09 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just give it a try and let us know what happens, Robert. Thanks.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 06, 2013 06:19 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Try a little pressure on the film gate Robert while the problem
reel is running, and see if this makes any difference.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 07, 2013 04:03 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Hugh says, try a little pressure on the front gate pad, using something pointed or a small screwdriver. Gently, mind. If this cures the picture unsteadiness you need new gate springs.

However, to save any expense, you could do-it-yourself by slightly pulling apart the springs. To do this first remove the lens, and then remove the two securing screws.

Be careful not to lose the small screws and the springs.

--------------------
Maurice

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 07, 2013 08:04 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK thanks chaps, will try later today.

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