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Author Topic: Dehydrated Film
Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted August 30, 2013 11:38 AM      Profile for Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.   Email Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello,

I transfer 16mm film with the Elmo TRV-16 and someone has brought me some "Dehydrated" film that is really brittle and curled. I have also seen the term "sprider webbing" which refers to the shape of the film and the white powder that comes off the film due to bad temperature/humidity conditions that the film was stored in.

Is there any method I can take to repair this film? I have seen some film to dvd companies online using a "film-o-sizing" method that restores the film to it's normal condition.

thank you

fields

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fields

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted August 30, 2013 12:07 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only thing on the market nowadays, I`ve found to help on dried film and bring it back a bit etc is Filmgaurd.

Worth a try. Maybe someone your way could mail a smallish amount to try. Or its fairly affordable stateside.

Good luck.

Mark.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 30, 2013 12:43 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My experience has been that Filmrenew is better for this situation - available from Larry Urbanski over there in the US.

Isn't Filmguard more for cleaning and lubrication?

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 30, 2013 01:15 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would think that a brittle print would need to be lubricated.

Bryon,

Is there a vinegar smell to the film?

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 30, 2013 01:26 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It certainly would need to be lubricated, Doug.
However lubricating the print will not cure any warping or curling in my experience.
However, I'll stand corrected if anyone has more experience in this matter.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 30, 2013 01:49 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael,

A tight reverse wind after applying might help. I've used FilmRenew for VS prints which is why I asked Bryon about the smell.
This print might need to sit in FilmRenew for a few days and then get an application of FilmGuard.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted August 30, 2013 01:53 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you saying vinegar smell can be cured with a bath? Thought they were gone when it first gets the syndrome

If that's the case, I will reconsider throwing a short 16mm Western Feud

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 30, 2013 01:59 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
A tight reverse wind after applying might help.
Quite right.

I've also had success which amazed me a few years back with a product called Liquid Film Plasticiser, manufactured by Peter Goed.
I had a couple prints which didn't have any vinegar smell but were warped to the point that they would not take up at all without severe sagging. Following the procedure described by Pete, the prints wound, and continue to wind, tightly.

Pete also reported "fixing" of prints with actual VS with this product, though I have no direct experience with that.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 30, 2013 02:01 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Vidar,

I've never seen anything cure VS, but if you're trying to screen a warped print or slow done the process these products (along with molecular sieves) can help.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted August 30, 2013 02:08 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, okay ... Then I guess it's lost cause ... only a short 7-8 minute (was my first ever 16mm, so for that reason I would want to keep it, but scared of what it will do to my other prints)

Thanks

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 30, 2013 02:19 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it was a cherished print, Vidar, I would just keep it apart from my other prints. If the print is of no real interest, then I would probably chuck it.

As Doug says, there isn't a cure for VS.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted August 30, 2013 02:22 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, I am still using a 30 odd year old tin of 2.22, which sadly won't last much longer. I had a film from 1929 that was warped, especially where there was a cement splice, I was worried that it wouldn't go through the projector so gave it several coatings of this lubricant and left it several months. The film has still some shape to it, but at least it was flexible and projected ok. I was using a manual threader, I haven't tried it in an auto threader.
The other case concerns an amateur film I bought; a splice broke and I panicked in the dark. I don't know what happened, but the film bunched up like a concertina. I rejoined the film using tape, and gave it a liberal coating of 2.22, then I tightly rewound the film and left it for 3 weeks. When I checked the film, I was only able to find the spot by looking for the tape; the film was completely flat, and no one would know there had ever been an incident.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 30, 2013 02:25 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not at all familiar with 2.22, Robert.
Who manufactured this?

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted August 30, 2013 03:01 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was made by a company called Kanus Chemicals in Crawley, Sussex. It was a one off treatment, and the company used to sell a solvent if you wanted to remove it for any reason. I was wondering whether I should get a sample analysed before it runs out, although I suppose it would be costly to get it made up. From what I could find out Kanus Chemicals was a one man operation and he took the secret of it to the grave when he died.
I often forget that a lot of members will be much younger than me, and I probably have bulbs that I bought new for my Eumig that are older than some members.

-

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

- posted August 31, 2013 05:31 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I well remember the 2.22 fluid.It acted in a similar way to wet gate priting, filling in surface scratches and also acted as a lubricant.
As regards the buckling of film stock, the labs often had to 're-dimension' buckled and shrunken stock ready for making prints. These would go into an airtight steam cleaner for several hours, then a print would be taken from it before it returned to it's previous state.

[ September 02, 2013, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Allan Broadfield ]

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Jon Byler
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Registered: Sep 2013

- posted September 19, 2013 02:48 PM      Profile for Jon Byler   Email Jon Byler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes, you should have the 2.22 analyzed! I was just thinking I should ask someone for a sample of it, to see if we could figure out what is in it. Maybe you have a local uni with a chem department who needs a problem for one of their grad students to solve? or maybe someone on this forum knows a film buff who is also a chemist or materials engineer?

We may not be able to get the exact composition, but one might come close. do it for the children and those of us who don't have any of this miracle stuff.

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