8mm Forum: Is this a stereo 16MM print?

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » 16mm Forum » Is this a stereo 16MM print?

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Is this a stereo 16MM print?

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 03, 2014 12:40 PM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I saw this auction for a 16MM print of XANADU, and my attention was drawn to the optical sound track, which seems to have TWO white stripes to it!

Does this mean that the print is stereo optical sound? I don't know enough about optical sound in general (beyond super 8 optical prints) do judge.

Here's the auction ...

[URL=http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-XANADU-Feature-Film-UNCUT-Olivia-Newton-John-Musical-Adapted-Score/111305138668?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC .FITP]http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-XANADU-Feature-Film-UNCUT-Olivia-Newton-John-Musical-Adapted-Score/111305138668?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSI C.FITP[/URL] %26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20643%26meid%3D5947677574089517520%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9209%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281103281937

By the way, the seller used the worst backing to take screenshots. I'm betting that the color is better than what the person shows.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: Milano, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted April 03, 2014 12:49 PM

Email Fabrizio Mosca

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

From the first picture it seems a mono print (both tracks are equal). I have some doubts on the second picture, but it's too out of focus to understand if it's a stereo one (the two tracks should be different in size and shape)

| IP: Logged

Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted April 03, 2014 01:23 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

This is a normal mono track. It's a Bilateral Variable Area track.

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

| IP: Logged

David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 03, 2014 02:31 PM

Author's Homepage

Email David Ollerearnshaw

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Agree it looks like a standard 16mm optical track take a look at this image

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 03, 2014 10:03 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I never heard about 16mm stereo printe before.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

posted April 04, 2014 12:02 AM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hi Osi,

And that 's right Martin, that's also called a Dual Variable Area soundtrack, it's the most common type of soundtrack on Eastman stock, both tracks are identical, and not stereo. Here is a link to Paul Ivester's guide to Identifying film stock and soundtracks.

http://www.paulivester.com/films/filmstock/guide.htm

I'm also posting the picture from his site here so you can see what the track in question is.

--------------------
http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 04, 2014 09:40 AM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

There is talk on other Forums that the American Army used to have 16mm films printed for their sole use with stereo sound tracks.
Does anybody have any more information on this?

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted April 04, 2014 10:48 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Of course it can be stereo: the twin track makes it possible, provided you use the proper audio master material, to strike stereo sound 16 mm prints; in fact the became quite common in Italy during the 1980's.

--------------------
Maurizio

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 04, 2014 11:23 AM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Maurizio, do you know models of 16 mm projectors ?

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted April 04, 2014 05:19 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

There should be some models from Eiki, included (at least) a xenon model. Sampaolofilm, the major Italian 16 mm print distributor, used to list and sell these along with some other models from Cinemec. I recall at some point I got a brochure with some models many years ago but I should find it in my files now because I don't remember the actual numbers. Actually I've never collected 16, but back in those times, I found it exciting the fact an Italian company was still dealing with 16 mm and some warehouse Super 8 prints to clear.

--------------------
Maurizio

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 04, 2014 05:35 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Thanks for this interesting answer, Maurizio.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted April 05, 2014 10:13 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

No prob! You're certain welcome.

--------------------
Maurizio

| IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 05, 2014 01:05 PM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Gerald, many thanks! [Smile]

[Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 06, 2014 04:18 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Its interesting that Super 8 leaped over 16mm in the sound department, with high fideleity magnetic stereo sound. Although not always realised to its full potential, this too me is the great advantage that super 8 has over 16mm, as stereo sound adds tremendous impact to film presentations, particularly musicals.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 06, 2014 05:21 PM

Email Michael O'Regan

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Except perhaps in its very early days, 16mm was never primarily for the home-viewing market. TV was the primary use and stereo sound would not have made much sense.

Super 8, on the other hand, was intended for the hobbyist and it made sense to develop sound capabilities as it did.

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 06, 2014 06:12 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Michael, 16mm has indeed always been a gauge difficult to classified. Its cost, the quality and the weight of the machines makes it a semi-professionnal gauge but the availability of black and white silent digests of colour sound films and some "small" projectors shows us that amateurs used also 16mm. Tv widely used 16mm but there was (and still is ?) another market for it.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 07, 2014 12:40 PM

Email Michael O'Regan

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

quote:
...but the availability of black and white silent digests of colour sound films and some "small" projectors shows us that amateurs used also 16mm.

Yes, definitely. I know there were all those Blackhawk releases for example. You are correct Dominique. But it was never as big a home movie format as Super 8, maybe due to it's expense. I don't know for sure but I would say that once Super 8 took off, 16mm home sales dropped off.
Anyone know any more on this.

| IP: Logged

Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted April 08, 2014 09:55 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I don't know about outside the UK but in January 1963 Amateur Movie Maker magazines said in its annual projector guide that film libraries were reporting a steep decline in non-sound 16mm film hire. At the same time there were only three 16mm silent projectors on the market- B & H 613H, Specto 8/16mm and the Specto Analysing projector. It seems the decline in 16mm for home use predates the arrival of Super 8.

--------------------
Paul.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2