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Author Topic: Bell & Howell 655QE Lost Lower Loop
Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 02, 2014 06:08 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been given a Bell & Howell 655QE recently and I was pleasantly surprised to find that the worm gear was still intact. The auto threading seems to work but it immediately loses its lower loop and the picture blurs completely. The hand loop restorer is ineffective and needless to say the film perforations become damaged by the claw. The sprocket wheels seem OK and rotate synchronously when the threading knob is turned by hand. Manual threading makes no difference. Any ideas? Is it a major repair? Many thanks for all suggestions.

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 02, 2014 10:10 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A slight problem with the 655 (and its brothers) is that there is little room to form a bottom loop between the loop former and the plated guide below. Either the film drags on the loop former which then goes mad trying to reform the loop, or if the loop's too big the film scrapes on the lower plate.

If you were having problems with auto-thread then I would suggest that you hadn't used the film trimmer, this cuts just where it is needed. But you say that the trouble persists even when manually threaded.

It seems that somebody has been messing about internally and the phasing of the ratio between the claw and the lower sprocket is out.

The only answer is a trip to a projector doctor.

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 03, 2014 09:58 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Maurice for your help. On further experimentation it seems that I may have been wrong about the claw. I have used the auto threading again without further perforation damage and it seems that the claws ("shuttle teeth") are not actually penetrating the perforations, perhaps due to in-out cam wear. If I can adjust the cam then all may be well otherwise a new cam may be needed, fitted by an expert

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Paul.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted August 03, 2014 02:08 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Make sure that the loop restorer black roller (near the under-side of the gate) is free to do it's job. To test, simply switch on and push this roller up. It should, quite violently, judder up and down. Remember, this is a small black roller you are looking for, just above where the bottom loop should be formed. If no judder, or it cannot be moved, then it has seized. Use penetrating spray in the rear of the machine (use a torch to see where) so that the mechanism can be freed. Probably best to leave overnight for the spray to soak in. If this doesn't fix, then I will explain how to adjust claw penetration. Try the loop restorer first.

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 04, 2014 03:56 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Simon, I will check this out tonight and report back.

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Paul.

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 05, 2014 01:38 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The loop restorer roller was very sticky when I did the test and is now stuck. I will try adding penetrating oil overnight later this week.

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Paul.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted August 08, 2014 07:00 AM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How did you get on Paul?

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 08, 2014 10:25 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Simon,
So far no luck. I have tried two goes with Plus Gas and then WD40 separated by 48 hours and the loop restorer roller is still stuck although it shows signs of giving a little. My two manual threading Bell & Howells, a 642 and a 8D644, have equivalent rollers which do move freely and I am convinced visually that the 655 claw penetration is too short as it barely emerges from behind the slot in the back plate. I'm going to keep trying though to free the roller.

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Paul.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted August 08, 2014 12:57 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the machine in "thread mode"? If it is, then the claw would be withdrawn.

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 08, 2014 02:47 PM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No but I can see a tiny difference. When the thread lever is pushed right, the claw moves up and down only. When the thread lever is released left,there is a tiny in and out as well.

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Paul.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted August 08, 2014 03:45 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It could be that the whole of the auto-thread mech needs freeing up? Ensure every part can move back to it's fullest position, once you've clicked it out of thread mode. Again, lubrication will be needed.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 09, 2014 10:04 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've had similar problems in the past and the only answer is a complete strip down, cleaning and lubrication. And rebuild. It's not a quick and simple job.

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 10, 2014 11:51 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I've now done everything I can. I tried applying some heat from a hair dryer round the back to loosen the threading mechanism linkages. It moves more freely but the loop restorer roller is still stuck and the claw still withdrawn. Worse still two crack sounds came from the back after using the hair dryer. I can't see what the damage was but film no longer threads and escapes through the top loop flap. Time to leave alone and have repaired or sell on.

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 10, 2014 12:19 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very wise, Paul.
Also after a strip-down the whole phasing for the auto-thread mechanism will need to be reset. All very time consuming.

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 11, 2014 02:55 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Maurice and Simon for your suggestions. I must admit I prefer Bell & Howell's manual threading machines. The auto threading is fine when new or properly serviced but seems to be a menace when old and the grease has hardened. This seems to true of all the TQ machines from 1969 onwards.

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 11, 2014 04:33 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True. I have a 642 and a 644, whilst manual threading does take a little more time, at least you are sure that the threading is OK, not always a sure thing with an auto-thread.

I suppose it was a move to attract purchasers (schools, etc) who didn't know one end of a projector from the other.

Many (many) years ago the front door bell rings, the caller says "I understand you know about projectors. I'm in trouble in the Church Hall trying to show a film with a borrowed 16mm projector."

I accompanied him a few hundred yards to the hall. A large audience were expectant. On the table was a Bell & Howell 652 (same as I owned at the time.) He says "I pressed down this lever and pushed the film thorough this slot. It came out the back and I then anchored it to the spool. But when I switched on, the film was all jumpy".

A quick glance revealed his problem. All the formers were still in the auto-thread position. A pull on the film gave a satisfying click as the guides released themselves.

"Now switch on" I said. He did so, and the projector ran perfectly. I was the hero of the evening!

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 11, 2014 05:31 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice story [Big Grin] There is no "click" on my 655 when the auto threading is released.

There is an amusing film on Olaf's Bauer website showing a harassed teacher trying to thread a projector while his class go into a well-behaved "riot." His life is transformed by his new Bauer P8 with impeccable auto threading and programmed repeated sequences:
http://www.olafs-16mm-kino.de/bauer_p8.htm

The two Rank Aldis projectors I have owned - one 20 years ago and my present one do seem to have good automatic threading.

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Paul.

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

- posted August 23, 2014 04:00 AM      Profile for Paul Mason     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recently sold my troublesome projector to a nice chap in Scotland. He succeeded in repairing the projector where I failed. [Frown] . He tell me he dismantled some of the mechanism to free it up and cure some other problems with the still picture and rewind brake. He did have a similar projector to refer to as a guide which is better than a workshop manual which assumes you have the factory service tools. So next time I may be brave and actually take things apart.

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Paul.

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