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Author Topic: Archival Cans
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 02, 2018 10:22 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having received a feature on spools only I had a look on the internet for 16mm cans. I came across some which had ventilation holes/slots and described as Archival Cans.
On closer examination it seemed that they were only designed for film on cores, presumably not deep enough for a film on a spool.
As ex cinema I was always used to receiving 35mm film in cans and mounted on a core (if you were lucky), but I've never heard of storing 16mm film on cores.
Has anybody got these special cans, and is it true that film on spools will not fit?

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Maurice

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 02, 2018 02:36 PM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, I use some of those cans. As you say, reels will stick up too high for the lid to close properly. OK if you only have two or three on a stack, not so good beyond that.

I worked in film restoration for a few years, and archives always store 16mm as well as 35mm on cores. They rarely project film, but often look at them on a Steenbeck for which cores are more convenient. One collector I know stores his whole 16mm collection on cores and just uses a split spool when projecting them.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 02, 2018 04:09 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been using the archival plastic cans from Larry Urbanski and Moment Catcher Productions, and I personally have no problem with them not closing fully. The more ventilation the better, right?

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Joe Taffis

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 03, 2018 01:59 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you gentlemen.
Chris, what 16mm archival cans do you use, and where do you get them from in the UK?
I think the Tuscan ProVent look very good, are they available from a supplier in the UK, or would I have to import?

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Maurice

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 03, 2018 04:11 AM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, you can import the Urbanski ones, but you get hit for customs charges as well as shipping.

I bought my last batch from PEC Video in the east end of London. They're really nice. Not as tough plastic as the old blue Tuscan ones though. Delivery from PEC was a bit of a pain, and I'm only just outside London. In the end I had to have them delivered to work and carry them home from there - hopefully they've changed delivery people since then. Otherwise they're excellent people to deal with.

My concern with the lids not closing properly over the spools, is that if you have a tall stack of say 10 cans, that puts a lot of pressure on the spools at the bottom, which are carrying the weight of the cans above them. Of course you can use them for 9.5mm 900' spools, and they will close properly over the spool, ideal for 9.5ers.

Maybe because of having edited on film professionally I'm so used to working with film on cores that I find them very convenient, and I have a fair bit of my collection stored on them.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 03, 2018 04:34 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris, I've been looking at PEC's web-side. Their phrasing is a bit odd "most of our cans come with holes in them". I assume you just don't get lucky but can specifically order with holes as I can't see any advantage in having an archival can with no holes!

They also mention that the 16mm cans have two 6mm holes in them which I consider don't seem able to do the job required, after all, anybody can drill two holes in a can and call it an archival can.

I must admit I prefer the look of the archival cans from PEL. They are more expensive that the PEC cans. Have you had any of them?

https://www.preservationequipment.com/Catalogue/Archival-Storage/Digital-Film/Film-Cans

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Maurice

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 03, 2018 05:36 AM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the PEC cans apart from the 16mm 400’ have holes I think.

It’s not just holes - the film sits on a series of ridges that allow air to pass under the film.

I haven’t used the kind you link to, but they look great.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted June 04, 2018 12:07 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have drilled holes in my plastic cans and other prints are in Urbanski Archival cans. I like the Urbanski cans very much...They have holes and ridges that raise the reel up slightly to let air circulate.

URBANSKI ARCHIVAL CAN
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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 04, 2018 02:50 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice
They look superb for the job, however, Urbanski have a minimum order, plus postage to UK.
And then it's quite possible that UK Customs and Excise will want their share.
Thus an order to this delightful company would be quite an expensive affair.

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Maurice

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted June 04, 2018 03:41 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Maurice...probably a little over budget. Perhaps the same design is available outside the U.S. Drilling holes into the plastic cans has worked equally well for me.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 04, 2018 04:02 PM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, all archival cans have a version of those features of the Urbanski cans, with the ridges allowing air to circulate, and air holes.

Personally I think it's the most practical thing to get the ones in your own country to save shipping and customs. So I would go for either the PEC cans or the ones you found, or for an American it would be a no brainer to buy the Urbanski cans (and I have in the past).

Sometime I must do Janice's drilling trick for my non-archival cans...

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted June 04, 2018 06:17 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've bought a couple hundred of the 16mm and 35mm archival cans from PEC London for my Laurel & Hardy & Three Stooges shorts (acetate prints) all on Goldberg metal reels. The two vent holes are either side of the lid and base and can be left open or closed depending on the position of the lid if you prefer to have them closed during transit.

I recommend the company wholeheartedly, have been using them for years for CIR splicer supplies, leaders, cleaning cloths and reels and cans. Superb friendly service, excellent pricing, and (for us in the UK) the longest running cine accessories supplier still in business now Rigby has closed down.

Kevin.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted June 05, 2018 01:24 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I havnt looked at any of our 16mm cans up close.
90% of our small collection are in the plastic cans with a couple on the metal cans.
How important is it have air holes please?

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 05, 2018 10:14 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, with the amount of 16mm films going vinegar, I think it's extremely important for the films to have some ventilation...

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Joe Taffis

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted June 05, 2018 11:55 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Archival cans were specifically designed to allow the films to breath by getting some air to the film. I don't know if it's been scientifically proven to prevent VS, but drilling a few holes into the plastic cans should be equally effective and cheaper. I drilled 4 holes using a 1/4" drill bit.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted June 05, 2018 01:01 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your solution is a good one too Janice - I had lots of 400ft Tuscan plastic cans I drilled a hole through to allow the films to breathe - a case of getting the balance right to protect the film from dust and still allow a flow of air - I think the term for Acetate films is to allow them to 'gas off'.

Kevin

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted June 05, 2018 03:32 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
sounds like a Sunday afternoon job for me [Wink]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted June 05, 2018 05:06 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Using Goldberg steel reels I have no trouble with Urbanski vented cans.

I have 16mm cans 1200 and 1600 foot easily holding x2 super 8 steel reels.

Chip G

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 07, 2018 02:39 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Despite PECs website saying that their 16mm 2000ft archival cans were available a telephone call discovered that they were out of stock. When I queried their website information they said that the site was manually adjusted and was not always up to date.

So I phoned PEL (as linked above). They had the 2000ft archival cans in stock so I ordered three and 3" cores to go with them.

They have arrived and seem to be of very good quality. Round the perimeter they have four ventilation slots, 10cm long and 1mm wide. The outside and the inside of the lid and bottom are ribbed. Outside this gives good stacking properties, and inside they give ventilation to the top and bottom of the film. Whilst film on spools can be used it means that the lids do not close correctly. It seems that it is much better to use cores.

The archival cans, in grey plastic, are made in Canada by Stil Design.

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Maurice

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 07, 2018 04:30 AM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, can I ask how much it works out at per 2000’ can, including VAT and shipping? At the moment most of my features are in the old Tuscan cans and I was wondering what the cost of upgrading would be. Thanks.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted June 07, 2018 05:08 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris
Code 519-22522 - 16mm - 2000' Archival Can - £9.85 each.
Postage for my three was £9.95. Cores were 95p each.
Add VAT to total cost.
Not cheap, but they are good quality.
https://www.preservationequipment.com/Catalogue/Archival-Storage/Digital-Film/Film-Cans

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Maurice

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013

- posted June 07, 2018 07:47 AM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Maurice.

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