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Author Topic: 16mm Projector
Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 01, 2018 10:11 AM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone, I am looking for recommendations for a good reliable 16mm projector. I used to be a projectionist so know a fair bit about film and projectors, and I had a B&H 631 about 45 years ago. I expect things have changed a fair bit since then so any recommendations would be gratefully received. I am looking to spend in the region of £300 give or take a bit.
Regards, Clive Casey

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 217
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted July 01, 2018 12:34 PM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Clive, just to alert you to the fact that I’m selling a B+H 655 at the moment with a new worm gear, all serviced and with various upgrades, for half your budget. It’s in the 16mm equipment for sale forum.

Obviously see what suggestions other people make, but personally I’m a big fan of Bell and Howells.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5736
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 01, 2018 01:55 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A good bargain from a trusted Forum member.

This was sold by Kevin Brown of Nottingham, an excellent engineer who has looked after the servicing of my many projectors for over ten years.

My favourite 16mm projectors are Bell & Howell, but, as most people know, do have trouble in later years with defective worm gears. This projector has had a new one fitted by Kevin and should last now for many years.

I would recommend this purchase.

--------------------
Maurice

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 01, 2018 02:14 PM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply, I had seen your post and like the look of the projector, especially the fact that it has had a new worm gear. The down side is, it is collection only, but all food for thought. Many thanks,
Clive

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 217
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted July 01, 2018 02:23 PM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quite understand, Clive. If you do decide to make the journey, I have a few 16mm sound films I can throw in for free. Good luck with the search!

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 01, 2018 02:54 PM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the input Maurice, and thanks for the kind offer Chris. I am in France at the moment, back in the UK in just over a week, but thought I would test the water. Once I get an idea in my head, it’s hard to get rid of it. Even though I think digital is amazing, there is nothing like film. I still remember my school days, 50 years ago, when the science teacher used to show 16mm films at lunch times. They were made by BP and Essie and the likes of Ford Motors. But I think it was the whir of the projector that I loved. The one day the geography teacher snapped a film and didn’t know what to do.Another pupil said to the teacher, oh, Clive will fix it for you. So I was sent for, and he said, please can you fix it? So I took it home, spliced it, and took it back to school the next day, the look of relief on the teachers face, was a picture. Oh how I miss those days, but then I must just be a silly old fool. Regards to all silly old fools like me.
Clive

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 01, 2018 06:18 PM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi clive give me a ring I have plenty in stock all fully serviced and in very good condition and I carry spares if you should ever need any bell and howells and all models of elf I can post tel 07931 926550

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 02, 2018 04:03 AM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi David, I am looking for ideas as to which projector to buy and which people think are good and reliable.
Clive

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5736
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 02, 2018 04:46 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not just a question of good and reliable. The Bell & Howells, Eiki/Elf, Elmos and Rank Aldis (Bauer) fit the description.
But, really it is now at this time in the late years of their lives is the availability of spare parts to keep them going.
Probably a Bell & Howell fits this bill best of all, but it must have a new worm fairly recently fitted.
Some projector lamps are now becoming rare and expensive, therefore a projector which uses the readily available 250 watt ELC lamp is to be preferred.
This is why Chris' projector is a good buy at his asking price.

--------------------
Maurice

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 02, 2018 05:22 AM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Maurice, Thanks for the advise. I do like the look of Chris’s machine, and the fact that it has a new worm gear fitted and other mods. The biggest stumbling point, I live near the Lake District and it is quite a trek down to London. But like I said to Chris, it’s food for thought, and who knows, London could be blessed with my presence in the near future.
Clive

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Chris Bird
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 217
From: Kingston upon Thames, UK
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted July 02, 2018 11:48 AM      Profile for Chris Bird   Email Chris Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My TQ1 is now on hold for Kevin Brown himself. Provided we can work out collection, it’s his.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 02, 2018 01:34 PM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
bell and howells are the best but worm gear can be a problem and if they have new ones fitted its usually a non animation gear .when bell and seized trading my father bought all there spares he had over 200 genuine worm gears but as years have passed on I only have a few left now .re elf these are easily repaired and seldom go wrong and can be easily sorted I have all the models from auto and manual thread .rt 1 nt range snt slot loaders and the last ones made snt if you ring me I can talk you through the difference I am also not to far away about 50 miles or maybe less where I can give you a demo before money changes hands

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 110
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted July 02, 2018 03:19 PM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok Chris, many thanks
Clive

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 396
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2018 04:50 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling   Email Rob Koeling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Clive,

I've always been partial to Eiki/Elf machines myself. My main machine is an Eiki SSL (slotloader) and use an Elmo Xenon slotloader when I need the extra light (I like SlotLoad machines). My spare Eiki has been gathering dust for the last 2 years or so, so I would be happy to move it on to a good home. It is an SNT-1 (so the latest series of very compact machines; auto-loader). I paid £225 for it, and would like to get something near that for it. It is a great machine and is fully guaranteed. I'm happy to double-box it and send it.
Let me know!

- Rob

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5736
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 03, 2018 07:52 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have an Eiki SNT-1 and can thoroughly recommend it. It's a modern projector and there's no problem with worms on these projectors, also it uses the modern ELC lamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI9Kk-tSa-0

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Maurice

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5423
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2018 12:59 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I am not into 16mm, but for me (I own 2) Elmo 16CL is simple and reliable.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4785
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 03, 2018 04:20 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reading this post has now made me decide i would like to get myself an Eiki SNT, thanks lads, [Wink]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5736
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 04, 2018 02:23 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Elmo 16-CL is a useful slot-loading projector, but there could be a problem with the availability of spare parts, moreover, early models had problems with their take-up and a new belt system was introduced.
To check if this is in place, remove the side cover of the take -up arm and look at the belt. The modern belt should be toothed. If not, reject any purchase.
Another thing is the main control knob. This performs many actions with various linkages, if only one of these is out of adjustment the simple treading system will fail.

--------------------
Maurice

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3944
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted July 04, 2018 03:10 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I have a couple of nice Eiki projectors I never use them "only as a back up" I bought this B/H slot loader second hand back in 1996 and use it all the time, never in the 22 years has it given me any problems.

The big let down with the Eiki is its two claw pull down. The B/H has three and as such is much more forgiving with older films in less than good condition. It has to be real bad to loose the loop, compared with the Eiki and other two claw projectors. [Smile] as you might tell I am.. and still is a bit one eyed towards B/H [Smile]
 -

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5736
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 04, 2018 04:55 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham
When Bell & Howells get older so do their worm gears. You have been lucky, so far. [Smile]
Whilst I agree that the Eiki/Elf have a twin claw they do have a very efficient loop former which has never given me any trouble.
When I buy new films I always spend time with them on the rewind bench to ensure they are in perfect running condition, if not, they are repaired as necessary.

[ July 04, 2018, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

--------------------
Maurice

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted July 04, 2018 01:53 PM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Clive,

If you are still in France, take the oppornity to check "adverts", there are some 16mm machines for a very reasonnable price and pretty good condition (few hours accumulated), many Elmos often and Eikis too....

Best Regards

Phil

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1051
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted July 04, 2018 07:32 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Elmo 16-CL is known to have rubber rollers that turn to goo. Replacements are available but cost about $100.00.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 05, 2018 02:13 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham's experience of 22yrs of trouble free use of his Bell&Howell has to be more than luck. I am of the opinion that poor storage conditions are the most likely cause of the worm gear failure. Hot and cold - expansion and contraction - not good for a nylon sleeve fitted on a steel base. They have different coefficients of expansion.
I have a 1698 and like Graham, I have had it for over 20 years, with no problem whatsoever, so I don't see that it can be luck.
Likewise I favour the TQ3 over its competitors and even if the worm gear failed, I would certainly get Kevin to do the repair. It would be money well spent.

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 396
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 05, 2018 04:43 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling   Email Rob Koeling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would say that any of these late, high-end model machines are good and they all have their own little plusses and minuses.

Barry, you mention the rollers. It is true, you have to change them before they go to goo, otherwise you have a problem. But, it only happens ones in every 30 years or so and you can easily do it yourself.
The Eiki's have this rubber in the lens assembly that deteriorates and needs to be replaced at some point. Again, a minor repair. We are lucky that there are still relatively large numbers of these machines around and there is a wealth of knowledge to share to do most of these simple repairs ourselves. I am worried about the more complicated repairs, like the worm gear replacement and things like adjustment of claw and/or shutter timing. The number of people who are comfortable doing that is getting smaller.

I suppose preference is partly based on what you came across first. My first contact with 16mm projectors was in a film society where we used Eiki SL's. Those machines ran for at least 15 years, at least 5 hours a week, without any issues. They became (mostly) obsolete when we acquired a 35mm machine 25 years ago, but I am sure that we can pull the Eiki's out of the cupboard and (after a bit of a clean) threat a film and go.
I've mostly had Eiki's for myself since. I have had a Bauer, a B&H, and several Elmo CL's, but always an Eiki as my main machine.

- Rob

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted July 05, 2018 05:56 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

I have two Rank Aldis 16mm projectors
which have served me well, these would be my recommendations.
Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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