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» 8mm Forum   » 16mm Forum   » Hello and question about replacing B&H worm gear

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Author Topic: Hello and question about replacing B&H worm gear
Jonathan Wood
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Oxfordshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted October 01, 2018 09:39 AM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It’s my first time posting on this forum so hello to everyone !

I’ve already posted this question over on film tech but thought I would post it here too.

I have an immaculate B&H TQ1 that needs a new worm gear . I know there are people in the UK who can replace them but I was wondering how feasible it is to DIY? I’m pretty competent working on 35mm and I have practised on a few old mechs so I’m happy with the (fiddly!)physical removal / replacement aspect but I heard somewhere that there was a special tool needed to retime the sprockets? Unfortunately the original gear has disintegrated so I can’t scribe any line up marks . I know they are old machines but I’ve never seen one from this era in such otherwise good condition and it’s so beautifully well made . Any help or advice will be gratefully received. Cheers Jon

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted October 01, 2018 04:27 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jon, I know Kevin Brown is very good with them, and can also do a lamp upgrade to the much better A1/259 259 while on, plus other options.

Hes not the cheapest, but it would probably be a very good investement, and then a superb macine.

I`ve known a few handy people who were totally defeated by doing this themselves. The timings, and reset up etc can be really tough.

All seemed OK but the machines were never quite right again.

Sounds like you have a nice one there so might be worth throwing a few shekels at it, as would last a lifetime once Kevin Brown`d I`d imagine.

Best Mark.

PS I think Maurice gets work done there. Kevins in Nottingham.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011

- posted October 01, 2018 05:14 PM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
most gears that they fit now have been machined by engineers and some are good and some are bad so you could spend money and could seize and most gears made are non animation so you lose the animation ,when bell and howell seized trading my father bought most of there spares including over 200 genuine bell and howell gears but over the years I have sold them and kept a few for my self .its not an easy job to do .I can do one in about 4 hours .I can sell you a fully serviced tq1 I have about 10 in stock then you can use yours for spares eg motor amp etc or I can sell you a fully serviced elf where you don't have to worry about the gear

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted October 01, 2018 05:40 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Johnathan
I also have a mint TQ, although it's a TQ111 and fortunately the worm is still perfect, but if it ever failed I would send it to Kevin Brown for repair - no question about it. He is also able to replace a new worm that has the animation facility, although it is a little more expensive because of the extra work involved.
As Mark has already said - they are great machines and well worth the cost knowing that it has been repaired by an expert.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 02, 2018 02:22 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jonathan
I have known Kevin Brown in Nottingham for around ten years. He always keeps my projectors in great shape. At the moment he has two of my Bell & Howell TQ1 models on which he has replaced the worm gears and modified them to use the A1/259 lamp.
Whilst working on projectors he will replace any parts which need it, and generally lubricate as necessary.
He is not cheap, but I can thoroughly recommend him.
https://www.yell.com/biz/kb-cine-repairs-nottingham-8723722/

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Maurice

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Jonathan Wood
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Oxfordshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted October 02, 2018 02:45 AM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys for the advice and recommendations. I spoke to Kevin a while ago about a 2592 and you’re right , he’s not cheap but he certainly knows his stuff. He also has to make a living though so I understand why he charges what he does, after all there can’t be that much of a demand for his type of services these days.

I think I will get it over to him at some point as even though it’s a lot to spend on a 50yr old machine , I think it will go on forever ! So much nicer than their later models in my opinion.

Incidentally, there used to be a guy south of London who used to replace worm gears for me years ago, I think it was Aztec servicing , does anyone know if he’s still around ?

Thanks again

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

- posted October 02, 2018 04:05 AM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are right to have this done professionally. As for the money you are spending...you'll be appreciating the quality of the machine long after you have forgotten the cost!

It is always a concern to me when collectors think that just having the service manual will allow them to successfully complete any repair. If only it were that simple! 99% of issues these days are not even covered in the manuals, which often aren't that helpful. They all assume some working knowledge and will not say "turn screw B to the right and then adjust nut 5.7 to the left and all will be well". If you make adjustments, likely you will have caused other issues in doing so.

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Jonathan Wood
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Oxfordshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted October 02, 2018 04:48 AM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed re those manuals, I always think of them as more impressionistic than funtional. There’s Barely a mention of the WG in the one I have . Always been happy working on 35mm because it’s so much bigger and generally speaking, quite obvious . 16 is another matter though , especially B&H , too many tiny parts with functions that aren’t immediately obvious.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 02, 2018 04:51 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my opinion the Bell & Howell 655QE TQ1 is the best model of them all, however, the rather obsolete, and expensive, A1/235 needs to be replaced by the A1/259 which is cheap and readily available.
It's important to get the QE model as this stands for Quartz Economy, i.e., it has the two-position lamp switch, which in its economy position will enhance the life of the lamp.
Its amplifier is quite capable of supplying two large speakers.
I already have two of them here, and shortly the total will be four. [Smile]

--------------------
Maurice

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011

- posted October 02, 2018 05:23 AM      Profile for David Guest     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would say the the 644 was the best one ever made 25 watt amp manual thread optical and magnetic playback and record I have 6 off them all in excellent working order and use them regulary

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 02, 2018 05:56 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 644 is, of course, somewhat of a forerunner of the 655QE, it's a good projector on a cold evening to keep the room warm with its 1000 watt lamp. However, the price of the A1/207 is now quite astronomical.
Mine has been converted (by Kevon Brown) to use the HID 150 lamp and it's now an outstanding projector.
However, perhaps David has a large stock of A1/207 Truflector lamps.

--------------------
Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted October 02, 2018 06:05 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually I have quite a few Atlas A1/207 new old stock, if anyone is interested. £10 each.

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Neil Massey
Junior
Posts: 27
From: Peacehaven, UK
Registered: Oct 2015

- posted October 02, 2018 01:42 PM      Profile for Neil Massey   Email Neil Massey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jonathan

May I just add to Maurice's comment regarding the 655QE. I recently purchased this model from Kevin Brown, completely rebuilt with the new worm gear. All I can say is that I've been absolutely delighted with it: it has all the solidity of that generation of projectors combined with an excellent 25 watt amp.

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Jonathan Wood
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Oxfordshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted October 02, 2018 02:39 PM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The model I have is the 652Q , optical only and a smaller amp but I’ve never seen a machine from this era in such good condition , it really does look unused and it makes one of their black plastic late models look quite flimsy in comparison. The great thing is , there are lots about and can still be had quite cheaply which is more than you can say for a 2592 or a TQ3!

I also have the slightly older pre TQ model 655D , very similar but with different drive belt and that 1000w lamp. The one I have is quite interesting as it came with a 1200w 110v lamp and a big red sticker saying use only with a transformer? It’s definitely a UK 230/50v model but it seems it was capable of dual power to make use of the bigger lamp ? I removed the lamp and plugged it in and everything came to life but as the WG had disintegrated it was difficult to tell whether it was working at correct speed ?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted October 02, 2018 03:01 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jonathan

Regarding your 655D, this is the point of the four pin mains inlet. One of the four pins goes straight to the lamp and not through the projector's switching.

I have a couple of 652 models which use the 1000 watt mains lamp at 240 volts. However, many years ago I was offered a large batch of 115 volt lamps and a transformer. With the correct Bell & Howell transformer and its special connecting lead the projector runs at 230/240 but the lamp is fed at 115volts. The transformer has a four position selector control and a meter to unsure the correct voltage of 115 is supplied.

By WG I assume you mean worm gear, That's another job for Kevin. [Smile]

--------------------
Maurice

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Jonathan Wood
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Oxfordshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted October 02, 2018 03:51 PM      Profile for Jonathan Wood   Email Jonathan Wood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The model I have is the 652Q , optical only and a smaller amp but I’ve never seen a machine from this era in such good condition , it really does look unused and it makes one of their black plastic late models look quite flimsy in comparison. The great thing is , there are lots about and can still be had quite cheaply which is more than you can say for a 2592 or a TQ3!

I also have the slightly older pre TQ model 655D , very similar but with different drive belt and that 1000w lamp. The one I have is quite interesting as it came with a 1200w 110v lamp and a big red sticker saying use only with a transformer? It’s definitely a UK 230/50v model but it seems it was capable of dual power to make use of the bigger lamp ? I removed the lamp and plugged it in and everything came to life but as the WG had disintegrated it was difficult to tell whether it was working at correct speed ?

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