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» 8mm Forum   » 16mm Forum   » Elmo 16CL Top Loop

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Author Topic: Elmo 16CL Top Loop
Stuart Hilliker
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: London
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted January 13, 2019 04:12 PM      Profile for Stuart Hilliker   Email Stuart Hilliker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My 16CL appears to be forming a top loop that is too small. Is there a straightforward way to adjust this?
Thanks for any help.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3701
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 15, 2019 03:01 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Stuart, the way to increase or decrease CL loops is to roll the feed or take up reel in or out a bit before you switich to forward. So you are tightening or slackening the film in the channel before you engage.

If your loop is a little too much at the top of the gate, tighten the film a little on the film reel before you engage the meachanism, if you will.

For too small a loop roll a little more film off the reel with your finger using the reel edge. So more loose film ( as you engage ) before it goes in.

Just roll the film reel a little on or off the way you need.

You will soon get the hang of it.

One thing to also do with any new to you CL ( or regularly anyway ) is make sure all of the rollers etc run freely as they are not entirely free/clear from the picture area.

The small rollers that close down over the sprockets touch in to each side of the picture area oddly so be sure they are roling nicely. Or you get fine marks each far side of the picture.

Someone may have added grease or oil before thats now drying out.

If not moving well carefully take them out and clean the inside of the roller with silicone and the shaft, not oil or grease as it dries and clogs the rollers pin shaft or inside etc and you end up with scratches.

You ned to be careful as there is a little metal shue edge thing falls out on the inside of the shue edge when you take the retaining screws for the small rollers out. It can easily go down in to the projector inside.

One to really watch is the last roller before the take up reel, they can easily stick and cause marking more on the far right of the picture. Same thing off, clean the inside and shaft with silicone not oils or grease etc and keep an eye on it.

The first roller before the film goes in to the machine can also be funny and you may need to do this and also slightly slacken the screw/shaft bolt a little as well so it runs freely.

Basically get out a little led torch etc and watch all of them to see they are flying round nicely.

Best Mark.

PS.

Its a matter of trial and error and keeping an eye on the loops, too big a loop at the top of the gate can cause scratching.

The under the gate loop is less of a concern as the film path is ressed so to speak, but it still better to check and re do it if needed.

You`ll get the knack with it though, as you go along.

PS message me your number if you want a chat about it.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 16, 2019 07:56 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Stuart

Does your 16CL have rubber surfaced film transport rollers or the newer smooth plastic rubber-free ones?

Kevin.

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Stuart Hilliker
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: London
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted January 19, 2019 02:27 AM      Profile for Stuart Hilliker   Email Stuart Hilliker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kevin. I replaced the rollers with the ones that have two thin rubber strips as opposed to the solid rubber. Could this be causing trouble?

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 19, 2019 05:36 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Stuart

I think we may be getting to the cause of the problem now - as Mark said the 16CL does have a quirky method of loop setting and I have also found it best to make sure there is no slack on the feed in film before starting projection.

If you add the potential for a little slippage when using the newer harder rollers then this might allow the sprocket driven top loop the get to big before the bottom rollers grip the film.

Furthermore we all tend to use lubricating film cleaners too which will make the film even more slippery. Good for the film in the gate and across fixed guides of course.

I am in no way knocking the design of these rollers and agree they are a permanent cure for the sticky mess the original rubber rollers end up in. Just pointing out there is more to the design of the originals than the new roller suppliers may have realised.

Next question Stuart - do you have to hand the old metal / rubber covered rollers you took off when the plastic ones were fitted?

Kevin.

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Stuart Hilliker
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: London
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted January 19, 2019 09:03 AM      Profile for Stuart Hilliker   Email Stuart Hilliker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kevin. Yes I do still have the originals. Do you have a plan?!

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 20, 2019 01:43 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Stuart I do yes - will send you a PM in a moment.

Kevin.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1553
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 20, 2019 02:29 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The original rollers can be re-surfaced. Larry Urbanski here in the USA sells a new OEM set and charges a deposit. He then refunds your deposit when he receives your old gooey set with the brass cores. I've replaced the rollers on my two Elmo 16CLs with these, and they are great!

--------------------
Joe Taffis

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Stuart Hilliker
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: London
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted January 28, 2019 03:14 AM      Profile for Stuart Hilliker   Email Stuart Hilliker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A quick update. Replacing just one of my new rollers with the original covered with Kevin’s tubing has solved all loop problems. The problem, as Kevin thought, was a lack of grip between the first two rollers below the gate.
Thank you Kevin for the advice and tubing!

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3701
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 04:24 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The small black plastic flat rollers are pretty grim.

They seem to affect the loop and stick too etc.

Wittners do good quality replacment`s are not too badly priced and very good and do the proper job.

Just a little higher cost wise at the mo with the pound.

Doing them yourself is the cheapest and pretty good way as Kevin suggests.

Best Mark.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 28, 2019 05:30 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's excellent news Stuart well done on fitting the silicon tubing and great to hear your loops are now all OK.

Also my sincere thanks to Bill Parsons for the idea of using rubber tubing in the first place on my own projectors.

When I first saw those hard plastic rollers being made it seemed to make sense as a cure for the old original rubber rollers when they go sticky, but at the same time a risk to the film as by design the 16CL (and 16AL) need a degree of braking and push / pull delay at startup time to create the correct size loops.

Only a rubber / silicon roller surface can provide this necessary grip as it seems the film slips between the hard plastic rollers creating a larger upper loop and film damage if not rectified.

Hopefully the manufacturers of the hard plastic replacement rollers will hear of this and come up with a solution.

Kevin.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3701
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 08:42 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinema Paradiso on ebay.uk does refurbish them for £40 now for the 4 with new rubber/silicone put on too.

Not too bad really.

Wittners are very good but about 140 Euros delivered.

Best Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4712
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 01:14 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Be good to see any images on this.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3701
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 02:00 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.wittnercinetec.com/8077

Wittners look very good.

Best Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4712
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 02:50 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Mark, i meant the fix on this projector within the thread.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3701
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 28, 2019 02:55 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom, I`m with you, I just thought to link those as look very good.

There is something on facebook, was mentioned on here.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=5;t=001627;go=older

Best Mark.

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