8mm Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Pedro's Sync Unit- In simple terms

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Pedro's Sync Unit- In simple terms
James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1374
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 16, 2005 02:24 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Guys,

I'm ashamed to say this, but, I can't quite figure out what this "sync unit" is. I keep hearing about it. It might be something I need. Can someone please explain what it is used for, and is other equipment needed to use with it. I'm not all that technical minded, so be easy on me [Wink] .

I was just waiting for a "Pedro's Sync Unit For Dummys" book to come out, but it just doesn't seem to be happening [Cool] .

Thanks.

Nick.

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 16, 2005 05:16 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James,

Pedros sync unit is designed to crystal lock the GS1200 to one of four running speeds. This it does very acurately. The speed are 16, 18, 24 & 25 FPS.
This unit tends to be used mainly to run the GS at the frame rate of the TV system of 24 or 25 fps.
If we want to record a stereo soundtrack on say a feature with the new sound originating on a PAL DVD we can get the GS to run at 25 fps which is the TV frame rate in the UK and this will enable the GS to run in sync with the DVD. I have recorded a few full features in this manner.
We us the 24FPS for running NTSC discs in sync. 16 & 18 are of course the 8mm silent speeds. The various speed are also there to enable people to do video transfers aging using the GS. This is all possible because of the Elmo Sync System (ESS) built into the GS. The box Pedro designed simply plugs into the ESS Socket and the machine switched to ESS control at which point the speed control is now taken over by the crystal control of the external box. Quite clever but at the same time quite simple.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

 |  IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 16, 2005 08:44 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Assuming that Pedro's sync unit didn't even come to be until many, many moons after the GS1200 first hit the market, I wonder what Elmo originally designed the ESS system for? Were they planning to (or did they) offer accessories doing roughly the same thing as Pedro's unit?

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2385
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted February 17, 2005 01:51 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
We us the 24FPS for running NTSC discs in sync
OK, this is where I'm lost. I understand the PAL/25fps speed setting, but, isn't NTSC 30fps?
[Eek!]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1374
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 17, 2005 03:24 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kevin & all-

That pretty much answers my question. I guess I don't need one, since I don't own an Elmo at this time.

Thanks.

Nick.

 |  IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 17, 2005 09:38 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jean-Marc: you're correct in that NTSC is 30fps, but it is for that very reason that film material is put through a process called 'telecine' in order to broadcast it as 30fps video (basically, a process of doubling and blending adjacent frames). Anyway, what it means is that film still runs at its original speed of 24fps, only that on TV you're seeing these 24 frames spread over 30. [Smile]
With PAL, no such process exists, the film is simply sped up from 24fps to 25fps to accommodate the PAL TV framerate.

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2385
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted February 18, 2005 12:10 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ahhhh... OK. I get it. Thanks Jan. [Smile]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 18, 2005 02:26 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been testing the sync' unit for use with 24fps material but haven't had any success so far. Should be going through the process again later today with Keith Wilton as we're obviously interested in the possibility of using this functionality for the 50th BFCC celebration.

It works fine with 25fps - a much simpler process.

The ESS port on the GS-1200 was always intended for pulse sync' in this manner which is why it was incorporated. The GS was primarily aimed at advanced amateur film makers so they could lay down soundtracks using pulse facilities.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

 |  IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 18, 2005 08:58 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That was quite the visionary thing to do of Elmo, considering they couldn't possibly have known that 20-30 years later, any such thing as DVD players and 5.1 digital soundtracks would exist enabling you lucky GS1200 owners to do just that: record new soundtracks in perfect sync with the film. [Smile]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

 |  IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1250
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 19, 2005 12:06 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a desire of mine to re-record sound tracks in perfect sync, unfortunately
I have not been able to sync from VHS or DVD in lock sync.
I am very interested in knowing how a 24fps, can lock sync with 29 or 30 fps NTSC broadcast standards without spending an inordinate amount of time on a project? Let alone keeping the pitch of the recording steady and even.

Is it possible to record the NTSC sound track into a movie editing program such as Adobe Premiere, and then save and export the captured track from the computer at the desired NTSC frame rate to then sync along with the film?

Best,
Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 19, 2005 12:45 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, sounds like a good idea. You could simply change the frame rate associated with the sound recording once it's in your computer from 29.97fps (NTSC TV) to 24fps (you guessed it... film). Then let the computer sync your Elmo to it, and do the recording thing.

And, oh yeah... it is the sound source that keeps your projector in sync, not the other way around, so keeping the pitch isn't an issue.

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central  
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2010 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2