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Author Topic: Of Panny's and GS1200'S
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4816
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 09:52 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have all heard the saying 'absence makes the heart grow fonder', well I'm kind of in that sitaution right now. You see, my Panny AE700 VP crapped out about 3 weeks ago, and I have had to send it to Kansas City for repair, as there is only one place in the whole of the USA that can service it! Fortunately the GS1200 has been able to fill the 'Big Screen' bill, but I really miss that Panny and being able to watch great movies almost every night of the week on that big 106 ins screen. Going back to watching DVD's on my 36 ins Sony just does not hack it at all.
Of course this situation is the bane of modern electronics. You can't fix them yourself, and unless you are still under warranty, you are probably better off throwing out anything more than 3 years old rather than getting it repaired ( in fact the latest issue of 'Consumers Reports' recommends doing just that). So in the VP world there are no Kev's or Bill Parsons around to help you fix that machine- you are on your own. You either pay through the nose to get it repaired or throw it away and buy a new one. This experience gives me new respect for my trusty Eumigs and Elmo's which will probably still be running like new 50 years from now, when my plastic VP has long been dead and buried! But I also realize that I can't live without my Panny either!

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted May 24, 2006 09:06 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's frightening... throwing out gear just because it's 3 years young? It gives me the chills. I take it your VP was no longer under warranty - what happened with it anyway, the picture just went blank or what did it do? *curious*

I'm actually led to wonder... if that wasn't one of the reasons of the demise of super-8 for the average consumer... not just that home video was on the rise, but perhaps that the better projectors were so long-lived, people just kept them around and felt little need to upgrade, not within just a couple years anyway, so perhaps the projector market eventually became so saturated that sales stagnated... even before VHS delivered the final blow.
Anyway, just rambling... I'm tired (and have a cold) [Roll Eyes]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4816
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 09:41 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fortunately the VP is still covered under a 2 year extended warranty. Failure mode was that it would not sequence thru power up properly. Still under evaluation by Panasonic, but suspect power supply or circuit board issues. The bottom line is that video projectors look like they are going to have a very short life compared with film projectors and repairs are probably prohibitively expensive once your outside the warranty period. Do not expect them to last more than about 4 or 5 years tops.
Your point about the reliability of super 8 projectors is well taken, particularly when you consider the number of mint condition units that pop up on ebay. And really good s8 gear seems to hold its price very well. For example the going rate for a good GS1200 is probably aroun $1,500.00. How many VP's will command that price 20 years into their life. Answer: none, because they will all be dead.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6797
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 10:35 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes,

You have to feel sorry for the guys in the home entertainment repair business these days. Unless it's something very high-end, it's disposable and will never get brought to them.

Even among those VPs that aren't dead in 20 years, they will be hopelessly obsolete and outperformed by new units at a fraction of their price. This won't do too much good for the value of used stuff!

Betamax, anyone?

I agree though, that there is nothing wrong with doing video projection along with film. The thing I dread about the day when I get a video projector is several dopy friends who are sure to think I'm also dumping Super-8!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 03:21 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terrible news Paul. I hope Panasonic can manage to repair it but if not perhaps they'll have to let you have an equivalent replacement machine - a brand spanking 900 model perhaps? Now wouldn't that be a shame?

But if you can't wait for the Panasonic to return... I hear Sony are about to release their own three chip hybrid projector. Whilst it is doubtful this will get anywhere near the quality of Colin Clarke's 3 chip JVC hybrid it certainly will be worth looking at as it will be cheaper than both my own video projectors when they first came to market. Around £6,000 apparently.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 03:28 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Very interesting comments you guys make.

I have a friend who started his own business, a TV, Video & Audio repair business.
These days he get few repairs as people prefer to just dispose of these items and buy new becuse of the cost of spares/repairs. The manufacturers and stores have now made these items so cheap that it's not worth the cost of repairing out side of the waranty. He also tells me that spares are now very costly and seems like a ploy by the manufacturers to make people buy new.
He now spents a lot of his time setting up home video for people as a lot of the general public dont understand this sort of technology. At least it brings an income in for him.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 05:37 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, bad news indeed; hope it gets sorted soon.

At the risk of taking this thread a bit off topic, I have been using a DLP projector for about six years now and it has performed very well indeed.

I'm thinking about a new projector like the Panasonic as the price and performance seems so attractive, but the reason I went for DLP is that I tried an LCD projector and it had so many picture problems it drove me nuts and I couldn't live with it (at the time it was meant to be one of the best [Frown] ).

In all honesty, Paul, although the Panny will certainly give me much better resolution, contrast and colour than my older machine, does it suffer from any pixel failure, or more annoying "dust ingression", where dust gets inside and stuck to the LCD panels, causing slight shadows or marks on white images and light grey marks on deep blacks. My first LCD was a nighmare in this respect and it really put me off LCD.

I'd like to know your opinion because I'm sure a brand new projector looks great if I was to go and see a demo of one, but you have the benefit of having used it for some time which is the real test (erm, aside from the fact it has packed up altogether [Roll Eyes] which we'll ignore for now!).

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2387
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted May 25, 2006 06:25 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, I purchased my Panny 700 18+ months ago, following Paul's advice. It's been running like a charm since then. No pixel failure and regular vacuuming has kept it in top shape.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4816
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 09:18 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Rob,
I agree totally with Jean-Marc. I have had my Panny 700 for 18 months and it has performed flawlessly during that time. No vertical banding, no dead pixels, no dust, and zero screen door effect even 6ins away from the screen. The performance of the Panny 700 is awesome, stunningly sharp picture, great contrast, and deep rich color saturation. It really looks like your local cinema. Mine failed suddenly at 1000 hrs, and I do not believe it is the lamp, which is the most common failure mode. Right now I'm looking on the bright side and hoping Panasonic will be able to fix the unit like new, although I certainly would not object to John's thought about getting a new AE900 unit back instead! [Big Grin]
Bottom line, I have nothing but the utmost praise for the Panasonic PT-AE700, it is a movie lovers dream machine at a very reasonable price. If you get it , you will love it. Remember, todays LCD projectors are light years ahead of those made just 3 or 4 years ago, and are every bit as good or better than current DLP machines, with no risk of the dreaded DLP 'Rainbow' effect on you and your audience.
Panasonic Rules!!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 585
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 04:14 PM      Profile for Mal Brake   Email Mal Brake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Paul 100%. I've had a Panasonic 700 for 10 months clocking up just under 300 hours so far. It performs really well, it's HD ready and is an useful addition to my little set-up.Not giving up 8mm though, in fact I have a show to do for 50 people next week, and the flexibility of splicing together a customised programme so easily makes film the ideal medium to use.
Mal

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 26, 2006 04:53 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right, it will definately be on the short list when I come to change my projector then; thanks all [Smile]

Mal, like yourself, whilst the video projector does get a lot of use these days, it still isn't a threat to my super 8 collection; I wouldn't dream of giving it up!

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2387
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted May 26, 2006 05:10 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob: the 900 is available now and I think for a cheaper price than the original 700 street price.
These days, my Elmos (8 and 16) are being used a lot, much more than my Panny...

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3936
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted May 26, 2006 08:24 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul
Sorry to read about your projector, it certainly highlights the life expectancy of V/P, as we are so used to film projectors that will last a lifetime. Its sometimes hard to adapt to the thinking that our latest plastic fantastic is worth little as soon as you walk out the store, and as you say 5yrs if you are lucky. I myself have a plastic fantastic, and cringe at the thought, that although 5yrs seems a way off when you buy it those years can pass so quickly. One positive thing though ,that due to the fall in sales of V/P in place of plasma T/V etc ,the price should fall further, so to write one off in the future wont be so expensive ,at least you have been wise enough to keep your film projectors, well all the best hope they manage to fix it soon.
Graham.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 05:28 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I just "happened" to find myself in one of my favourite hi-fi dealers shops yesterday for some bits and bobs.

Lo and behold, they had a Panasonic 700 all ready for demonstration! It was very impressive but then in came the 900. Well, wow, yes, very nice indeed! The most impressive thing for me over my current projector was the startling colour [Smile]

I really only wanted to have a look, but then the guy sent me into termoil by offering me that demo model (out of the box only last week and with only 7 hours on the lamp) for £1000.

This seems like a good price to me. What do you guys think?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4816
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 08:41 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Rob,
Let me see, 1000 pounds is about $1,900 . The going rate for a brand new Panny AE900 in the USA IS $1,899.00, so that sounds about right, except you are talking about an AE700 which should be a lot less- I would think about $1,200.00 or 700 pounds. Another thing. Anything 'out of the box' should entitle you to a 25% discount, I don't care if it has only 6 hours on the lamp, it means a lot of people have been handling it and messing around with it. Second, Panasonic in the USA are giving a $400.00 mail in rebate, which brings the price of a NEW AE900 down to $1,499.00 or about 800 pounds. I would definately ask up front about a rebate from Panasonic and see if they are offering something similar in the UK, and also demand 25% off the new price for any open shelf item. Otherwise, tell the guy to get lost.
Incidentally, my AE700 came back from servicing yesterday and is running like new, and it was not a lamp failure.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted May 27, 2006 09:12 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

happy to hear your AE700 is back in business. [Smile] Incidentally I'm very intrigued by this model (no wonder, what with all the praise it's received on this forum) but I'm wondering: is it still currently in production or has it been replaced by the AE900? Panasonic's own website only lists the 900. I'm interested in the 700 because it's actually affordable for me - I'm in no shape to buy one right now but I'm saving for one and $1,200 is about how much I plan to be spending when the time comes. [Smile]
Only place I've even found the 700 for sale is on a small number of retail websites found through Froogle...

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4816
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 09:45 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jan,
I am pretty sure that the AE700 is now out of production. But it would seem likely that there are still a lot of new AE700's in dealers stock. I would contact 'Projector People' or 'Visual Apex' and ask them if they still have any AE700's. Incidentally, both these companies are highly recommended as top notch and trustworthy mail order dealers. Don't buy from a 'fly-by-night' outfit, and make sure you get a 2 year extended warranty (total 3 years)- many companies will throw one in at no cost to capture the sale.
Before buying any VP, read everything you can on this web site to get info and best deals:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4443
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 10:13 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jan,

Along with Paul, I strongly recommend Visual Apex. My Panny 700 is going strong, although it gets nowhere near the use of Paul's, Jean-Marc's, or Mal's. If I'm taking the time to set up a projector, it's normally the Elmo. Or the Bauer. Or the Eumig. Or the......

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted May 27, 2006 10:43 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Awesome, Paul & Doug, thanks for all the info [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Bill Parsons
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: Brookland. UK
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted May 27, 2006 12:14 PM      Profile for Bill Parsons   Email Bill Parsons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a matter of interest, I work for a Panasonic agent in the UK the only trouble we ever have with Panasonic video projectors is the lamp power supply, I would say this is more likely to fail than the lamp itself! It happens on the 700 and the model before, but I have not had a good look at the 900 to see if they have modified the power unit in these, that is not to say they are guaranteed to fail because on the whole they are very reliable and represent excellent value for money.

Bill.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 03:37 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, glad to hear the problem is sorted.

The shop told me that the retail price here on the 900 was £1500, so £1000 seemed kind of reasonable at the time (just to clarify - the £1000 was the price for the ex-demo 900, I think I might have made it sound a bit confusing in my last post [Roll Eyes] ).

They did also tell me that they could sell me a brand new one for £1200, so if you look at it like that then yes, you are right, the ex-demo one should really be a lot less.

Many thanks for your (and everyone's) comments, you have persuaded me that when the time comes I will probably go for the Panasonic 900 as opposed to another make, but I'm also glad I didn't rush into it as I think you are right, I can probably get one much cheaper.

It is good to know that there is such a good projector out there for sensible money and if I can pick one up for say, around £800 in the future, I would consider that an absolute bargain for the quality on offer.

I'll keep you posted as and when I replace my current DLP!

Thanks again [Smile]

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Andrew Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 784
From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
Registered: Jan 2006


 - posted May 27, 2006 04:35 PM      Profile for Andrew Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email Andrew Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
paul i'm glad you got your panny repaired but to dump it after three to five years makes me wonder if newer tech stuff is a con.after all if the manufactors dont care then we mr.joe public can answer with our wallets ie dont buy it.however do enjoy your vp
they are great fun;its funny that people like you who collect super8 as well go for vps.i know because i had one;my epson went green;i got my money back and got a gs1200;that put me off vps for life.the point i'm trying to make is this what are the chances of you getting your panny serviced in say five years,aganist your eumig/elmo over the same time.its a fair bet that the panny will have to be replaced;the eumig and elmo will still be purring away.andy.

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