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Author Topic: UK Forum shut down
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4858
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 07, 2007 04:42 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark Silvester's UK 'Silvo Screen' forum shut down today. It ran for a couple of years and provided some entertaining, and sometimes controversial, banter. Aimed primarily at DVD projection, it was sometimes dismissive of Cine, but the stated aim was the enjoyment of the big screen experience, and as such, it will be missed by many of us. Thanks to Mark for hosting the forum for as long as he did.
Fortunately, Brad's US forum seems to be going from strength to strength, not only with a small but continual influx of new members, but also in the scope of formats that it covers, now even including 9.5mm, and with no restriction or bias against projected DVD posts.
So this forum has now become the one-stop web site for all film collectors. [Wink]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6846
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 07, 2007 05:21 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was an early member over there when it was dedicated to 8mm film. I still hung in as it shifted to 16mm and then purely to DVD projection.

I grew very tired of the attitude shown to people who stuck with film by the newly converted video crowd that hung out over there.

I found it more than a little narrow minded! It's a hobbyfor crying out loud, why criticize people for how they enjoy it!

If I am an "Anorak", I'm a proud one!

The truth IS out there!...No, wait! It's right here!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10034
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 07, 2007 05:22 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think this forum will still thrive for many a year, (Though I do believe it will shrink more over time, as people sell off thier collections), but I do believe it will still exist ...

as there are just a bunch of us die-hard super 8 enthusiast who don't collect super 8 because it's the newest trend, or because it's financially sound, (cuz it aint!!)

Were an irrational bunch, and, quite frankly, there's not a lot of sense to paying 400 dollars for something you can get restored on DVD for 20 bucks ...

No, we love it because it's such a pleasure to run something on the big screen that's so organic, so backwards (by todays standards). I think that people who get into video projection, quite frankly, (and I'm someone who owns a 200ft. projection TV, so I can speak on it), really don't get the magic of celuloid.

So, may I coin a term for us? (which may already exist, for all I know).

We are cinematic PURISTS, or, even better, CINEMATIC ORGANICS.

ORGANIC CINESTS?

Any ideas out there?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3939
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted February 07, 2007 08:10 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi
Thats my biggest fear is that collectors will sell of there films I dont understand why ? when you think of it you spend years getting enjoyment out of it so what has changed ? [Roll Eyes] what does concern me is that someone who might have spent a lifetime collecting films goes into a store and is cleverly convinced to buy a video projector, being told it has better picture and sound etc, they set it up at home and then make the big mistake to sell there films and projectors, after a few weeks the novelty of video projection wears of, but its to late the very thing they had so much fun with is gone, snapped up by other collectors. If I had one piece of advice for collectors for what its worth and that is, if you want to buy video thats fine its certainly got its benefits but dont sell your films, as Paul quite rightly says, best of all worlds. "sound advice"

Graham.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 07, 2007 11:54 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Lail   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess he saw the truth. [Big Grin]

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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 08:20 AM      Profile for Barry Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But surely the enjoyment all of us film users getout of showing "Organic Film"! is just that-pure enjoyment.Plus the added joy/challenge of keeping our projectors running.Like many others,I have projectors now fifty years old,and they are a delight to restore to their former glory and enjoy using them so they do not languish in some dusty old corner of an attic.
And yes-I do like DVD projection or showing them on telly.Truth is,I cannot afford the projection side of it.Must draw the line somewhere!!

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Standard8 rules!!

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6846
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 09:21 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think where people run into trouble on either side of the fence is becoming too Orthodox about the whole thing. It is not wrong for a film collector to watch either/both film and/or projected video, much as it isn't to also listen to music, watch TV, jump rope or play the harmonica: it's all in fun!

What's wrong is people becoming critical of others who don't see things their way. It's alienating, polarizing and was at the root of the low level competition that developed between "over here" and "over there".

I while back I was in a canoe club where many members kept their boats two or maybe three seasons and then bought new ones. It became very tiresome being someone that "still had one of those"; not because other members kept re-buying, but because it was often pointed out to those of us that didn't. (...the canoe industry must have been thrilled!)

I fixed the problem. I kept my boat and dumped the club! I've saved thousands and got what I was after in the first place: enjoyment!

For myself I plan to wait it out a little while, let the technology mature, the prices fall and the formats stabilize, and hopefully watch the 2010 Olympics projected on my big screen.

-after that? Mixed media shows!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1326
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 03:37 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A tear has just rolled, gently down my cheek and fallen to the floor [Wink]

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Tony

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 04:38 PM      Profile for Steven Sigel   Email Steven Sigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve --

I think it's the Video-only guys who tend to be the ones who attack film collecting. Most film collectors that I know also have video projection. I certainly do. I suspect that I watch about 60%-70% film, 30%-40% video projection these days.

I'm not all that sorry to see Mark's site go away -- I think he really shot himself in the foot when he drove away all of the film collectors...

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6846
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 04:42 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I felt a certain "orthodoxy of the newly converted" over there, as if many had been into film but made the "big leap". Probably you are right there were video purists among the "Anoraknophobic" crowd as well.

I say "why jump?": there's no law against using both!

There is a bigger issue at play here too. Somewhere along the line we've had it inscribed in our heads that everything new is automatically better. I'm not sure if it's the folks that make consumer goods, the people that issue credit cards or perhaps the ones that we pay to dispose of our garbage, but automatic obsolescence means that our time of delight in most anything we own is doomed to be very short! (..if we follow the herd, that is!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 08, 2007 07:34 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Lail   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This post should be retitled - UK DVD Forum shut down.

R.I.P. [Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 06:08 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I think that quite a few of us either took an active part or at least kept an eye on the posts. I do think it was a shame that it became a forum dedicated to "DVD and give the small film collectors a hard time forum". Yes there was quite a bit of banter some of which was quite amusing but we have a forum here where all formats are open for discussion from the film collecting aspect right through to the "how do I repair it" aspect with no barrs on any of the modern formats as long as they stay in the General Yak area.

What's more is that the members on the 8mm forum are a friendly bunch with no agro and for me it has a sort of warm feeing to it.

Yes we have a go at each other sometimes but all tongue in cheek and like adults.

Lets hope we go from strength to strength and the indications are that the membership is still on a steady increase (over 700).

You guys have certainly made the Job of moderating a forum very easy for myself and Doug and for this I thank you all. I also thank Brad for the hard work he puts in behind the scenes because without him and the servers he runs we would have no Forum.

Keep the posts coming,

Kev. [Smile]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 06:25 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It’s a shame Marks forum had to close, he had provided a warm and comfortable place for those people who had made the leap to DVD projection and with it the decision to abandon film entirely. Those of us who happily run DVD and film together, didn’t fit in there and were marginalized for our continued enjoyment of the old format.

Some of the anti film rhetoric struck me as being a little hard to understand; a little like telling a keen fisherman that he was crazy to spend all that money on fishing tackle and his mornings sitting by a river in the rain, when he could buy perfectly good fish at the super market; they seemed to rather miss the point. Although one suspects that the truth really was more about a feeling of regret at having given up such a consuming interest.

I hadn’t looked at Marks forum for some time but when I last did, it seemed to mostly consist of obituaries that had been copied and pasted from other sites.

What sets this forum apart from others is the sense of ownership felt by its membership; Brad posts infrequently and the moderators are forum members. I think Mark, replying to almost every post made on his forum and frequently feeling the need to talk up the member’s intellectual and literary abilities, gave the forum a point of reference that its membership clearly appreciated. Perhaps that was all the more necessary with a topic such as DVD, which is mainstream and doesn’t enjoy the slightly eccentric and committed following of a niche interest, such as cine (or fishing [Wink] ).

Hopefully the old members will find a happy place to chat in the new forum (that Paul has now posted details of), and I wish them well.

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4463
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 10:19 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I hadn't participated in Mark's Forum (or even taken a look) in quite a while, I can appreciate the difficulty and the amount of time needed to properly run the site. Mark and Mike Newell were obviously both very dedicated to Bootlace, although I don't understand why they encouraged the disagreeable attitude that finally made it such an unpleasant (for me, anyway) place to visit. I've purchased films from both gentlemen and had enjoyed their postings on our Forum. Then came the vitriol, and I had no desire to pop in for a visit where I would be put on the defensive for daring to enjoy and support this hobby. In any case, I wish them the best of luck.
I'm looking forward to the "Fishing Forum" (coming soon!) on this very site.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 10:23 AM      Profile for Chris Quinn   Email Chris Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was also an early member of this forum, i battled on with the attitudes, i lived with the changes made, one day 8mm the next 16mm and then DVD projection. But then the personal attacks came and i decided to call it quits and left. I am now into DVD and have been for some time. There are forums but none like this one, a friendly community of like minded soles getting together to enjoy there hobby and help each other out. No one here slags of others or mocks someones hobby.

Long may you guy's keep it going and i may be back one day soon. [Smile]

Chris.

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3748
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 11:00 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Marks forum was great, and as Mike,P mentioned a good place to move on from film but keep in that friendly filmie circle if you will. There was much of interest there and a few good laughs too.
I think you can rationalise the odd bit of OH Gawd film etc not least after Mark himself( like many of us) from time to time was shafted a lot on film purchses, vinegaer prints with no mention, fade, poor order etc. I know well some of the duff doos that film sellers put his way when he was still actively enjoying and moving film along and putting soemthing in to the hobby. He spent and lost a lot of cash.
We all move along in different ways in life and film for me is still a way of focussing away from the mundanity and horrors of existence and whatever floats your boat really.
I still love and still enjoy film mixed in with the odd( expected now ) dissaster and I for one will miss Marks forum and thoughts and Mikes and efforts etc, great blokes and others from there too.
Best Mark.T.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 12:36 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, We have all been there, done that and worn the Tshirt where duff prints are concerned. I dont think there was ever any need to make it an uncomfortable place for film collectors (8mm) to be.

I think the problem went a lot deeper than you know and this is not really the place for discussing those deep down bitter feelings.

As I said in my earlier post this forum has been running for some years now and with the membership up at over the 700 mark it cant be, and isn't a bad place for people to talk about all aspect of Film collecting on whatever format.

Yes I'm sorry to see Mark's forum close down but it certainly didn't do the film collecting hobby any favors with its anti-attitude.

I think Edward will be more open about things on his new UK forum and I certainly wish him well.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Andrew Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 784
From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
Registered: Jan 2006


 - posted February 09, 2007 03:40 PM      Profile for Andrew Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email Andrew Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why was it called the uk forum;if he was anti cine?.
At least on this superb forum we the members can disscuss all
film subjects openly and fairly.That's why its got over 700 members.Morepower to Brad,Doug,and of course,Kevin.Andy.
P.S You got a pm.Kevin.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6846
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 04:09 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It actually started as an 8mm forum and kind of... evolved.

I never quite understood the logic of a "UK" forum anyway. Other than the fact that the clock on this forum is US central time (-does that make it a "Mid-Western Film Forum"?), what difference does it make?

Surely with our international moderators and cast of characters from many different countries, we are the Universe's Film Forum!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4858
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2007 07:01 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think there are many reasons for the overwhelming success of this forum compared with the others:

1) Brad insisted, from the outset, that user's post using their real names. This differentiates it from all the other forums, where people can hide behind pseudonames and (if they want to) hurl insults around. Real user names, along with the photos, personalizes the whole forum experience, and makes it a really comfortable place to visit. It's like talking to real friends, which in fact it is.

2) Brad has been pretty strict about kicking people off the forum who get out of line with bad language, insulting posts etc.
So no rabble allowed on this forum.

3) The level of technical expertise amongst the members is quite astonsishing. Just about any problem raised here gets good solid technical answers. No other film forum offers this capability.

4) The members are a very civilised and tolerant bunch. We respect each others opinion, and if we disagree, we express our opinions in a courteous way.

5) The ability to upload equipment photos, technical diagrams etc., adds tremendously to the enjoyment and technical support of the forum. Again, no other film forums seem to offer this capability.

So simply put, Brad's forum is the best on the web. Nothing else comes close.
But then, we all know that. [Wink]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2007 02:13 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

I think you're dead right on all those points. For me perhaps the most significant thing is the use of real names; it makes you feel you are communicating with real people and not people who for some reason find it necessary to hide behind a pseudonym. Having a frank exchange with someone calling themselves "Bimbam" or "Sunflower" never really seems quite right to me [Roll Eyes] .

The other most significant difference between this and other forums though is that the membership feel it is theirs, it is known as the 8mm forum and not Johns or Joes forum. I somehow find that where the site owner feels the necessity to respond to every post and have an opinion on every subject, it rather feels as though you're postings must be phrased in a particular way to remain within a private club.

Having to maintain a friendship with the site owner adds a whole other dynamic and clearly influences the postings (Brad, that isn't to say that you're not a thoroughly nice guy and we wouldn't all want to count you among our friends [Wink] ), so it's just nice to be able to go ahead and post your views, what ever they are, and simply keep them with in the accepted boundarys of civility and courtesy.

We are very fortunate to have this site and it's threads like this that make you realise just how well it compares to other forums.

Mike [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2883
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted February 10, 2007 12:02 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think I can add much to the points above concerning the SS forum, and I agree that there's no point raking up the details of the more controversial content. To be fair, it certainly had some interesting threads and knowledgable members and I contributed numerous posts there, mostly before the anti-film mood built up. On a less positive note, I thought it sometimes had a 'cliquey' feel to it, with a very high proportion of the posts being sent by a small group of people. You could probably say that about many boards, but it was emphasised by the fact that some of the posts from the regulars almost seemed to be in a bizarre 'language' unique to that site, that reflected the attitudes and weird sense of humour of the members in question. I must also add that I was astonished by some of the self-congratulatory posts there saying what a friendly, welcoming group it was, because I don't think anyone who read the content of the more emotive anti-film collecting threads there could deny that some of the posts were amongst the most vitriolic, sarcastic and insulting that you are ever likely to see! I think the fact that I managed to 'stick it out' and carry on posting despite expressing alternative views caused me to gain a little respect there, but it's not an experience I'd like to repeat very often!

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2007 02:02 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I have to say Adrian that I think that just about sums it up well.

I remember a post referring to this Forum as being very Cliquey but I cant think of a better description for the now departed Boot lace.

I think the fact that we don't get that sort of thing here on the 8mm is one of the reasons it runs so well.
I would hate to think of the 8mm forum getting like that and anyway I think Doug, Brad and I would stamp it out fairly rapidly as we have done on just a couple of occasions in the past.

One thing we can certainly say about this forum is that all are welcome and made to feel welcome.

Everyone has a right to express their own opinions and yes they certainly do but we wont tolerate people joining just to come on here and have a bash at others. Thats not what the forum is about or indeed here for.

Anyway we could go on debating the if's and but's so lets just forget about it all and get back to the business of our own forum.

Enjoy, Kev.

[ February 10, 2007, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1326
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2007 05:02 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh Guys, you just forced another tear from the other eye to roll down the other cheek and in much the same way fall to the floor on the other side

[Big Grin]

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Tony

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2007 05:39 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Lail   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, you're choking me up. [Big Grin]

Let me add one more thing. I have read on other forums where members brag that they have uncensored freedom of speech. Even the administrators boost this too, then they ban or edit someone's post because they are offended or disagree. Freedom of speech is wonderful if the jurisdiction you live in allows it or you are in the privacy of your home, but a forum is owned by someone and this person is wise to establish rules involving courtesy and good fellowship. Suggesting a change or change in policy or questioning a new idea by the administrator(s) in a courteous way should not get you banned and then trashed without you being able to defend yourself through a reply. This does not happen here.

I hope I haven't gone over the line on this one. It is just an observation and a lesson learned from experience. [Smile]

Once again, this is a great forum and one is made to feel very welcome. [Cool]

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