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Topic: Caution and advice on ebay ...
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 04, 2009 05:20 PM
Osi.
quote: Winbert ...
I'm not sure if they, ebay as a whole, have an actual policy, but I wrote them with a question about this a few years back and they stated that they personally frown on it.
I believe what Ebay's concern to Sniper service is most because we disclose our Ebay ID and password to other person (institution). Which this is not right. But then whoever use the sniper service do take a risk by doing this. So far I am save, and there is no intention from www.snipestreet.com to misuse my Ebay ID
quote: I don't know how it would work however, unless they could identify where the bid came from perhaps,
Of course Ebay can easily identify it, because every time we log in our proxy will tell us where we come from (... but an exception for those computer geeks who can use other proxy servers to manipulate their origin country). And sniper service is not always located in the same country of the users.
quote:
By the way, I didn't really understand where you were going with your replies earlier in this series of posts, but I do appreciate your efforts Winbert.
Which part Osi??? because I wrote so many things. And my apology if my English is hard to be understood. Please note, English is my 3rd language.
quote: you can always outrageously bid on the item to secure that you win it, (which works unless, the auction has a program working on it that will bring up the last bidder to one dollar less than you bid.
This is the statement that you always raised in the earlier threads and I am afraid you still don't understand the Ebay auction system
(ps: if you placed your max bid $150 for Popeye and someone snipped you by $200 in the last minute, then you were outbid and you loose and the higher bidder will pay only $150.50....not $200)
regards,
-------------------- Winbert
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 05, 2009 09:37 AM
quote: Years ago,ebay was a pretty fun
John, I think Ebay is still fun (especially if your hobby is not only 8mm). Beside 8mm, I have another collection such as model train, vinyls, etc. And for those stuffs are easy to get from Ebay rather than searching on flea markets/antique stores. At least here in Toronto, everything is expensive compared to Ebay.
Moreover, I got some funny experience when getting film from mislisting/miscategory such as some 8mm films were listed as reel to reel tape or game cartridges (Osi, did you remember when I got several Walton releases from Game Cartridges category for only GBP 0.99?). This is another fun side of Ebay.
John, try different searching instead of stuck on DVD and Film category and you will find another fun.
-------------------- Winbert
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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008
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posted August 07, 2009 12:06 AM
Yes,ebay can be fun,but it's a shame a lot of you guys missed the good old days where collectors knew each other,actually called each other and made real interacting.Sorry guys,the hobby was a hell of a lot more enjoyable.And again,life does exist off the internet,you can find lots more film if you actually read the few film pubs left,you'll meet some of the older collectors who don't do the internet,they are the guys with real good stuff and they would enjoy talking to other collectors.I put a thread on about a guy in Tennessee who has film stuff than all of us combined.He let me put his phone number on.If I saw it,I'd be calling him right away.Instead I got replies about how he should be online and taking paypal!!!!!!If you love your hobby,turn off the old puter now and then and reach out.It only helps you.Remember,older people aren't interested in the internet.They had a life before the internet and have found they don't need it.I'm not ragging you out,just stating some realities and trying to help you guys.Again,I've had fun on ebay,I also have been ripped off on ebay,it's not the end all and be all of this hobby!
-------------------- Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 07, 2009 01:04 AM
quote: a lot of you guys missed the good old days where collectors knew each other
This is your second time to say this statement in this forum. First of all, John I wasn't even born during the era you mentioned
quote: ,actually called each other and made real interacting.
My father has always said that it is nice (and better) to talk with neighbor in person, face to face. I replied that I better to use my cellphone to do that. So, second of all, it is about the time different.
quote: ,you can find lots more film if you actually read the few film pubs left,
Third of all, now, those film pubs are also in the net. Don't you know that there many printed newspapers are not shifting to internet version?
quote: I put a thread on about a guy in Tennessee who has film stuff than all of us combined .
Aha... it may be true... but it may also you exaggerate....
I don't know how do you find how many films I have.... and 1000 more of members here..?
OK, now this thread is again shifting to another topic.
regards,
-------------------- Winbert
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted August 07, 2009 06:41 AM
I do agree with John in this respect.
Although I do believe that Ebay has been important as a source of prints to the collector (in 16mm anyway) there are indeed many other sources. I've come across many collectors by word of mouth through the collector network, who have no web presence at all - and I've enjoyed speaking with US collectors on the telephone, regarding a particular print or just shooting the collecting breeze.
Theres also CLASSIC IMAGES which now has ads from many of the collectors who used to advertise in BIG REEL.
Overall, though I use Ebay, I'd much sooner deal with someone directly, thereby building a relationship with them over the longterm.
To get back on topic - as I've said before, Ebay is what it is. It has its drawbacks - there will always be shill bidding and there will always be sniping - but, either use it and accept the downsides or leave it alone. There is no sense in using it, but, constantly whinging about it at the same time.
-Mike
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 07, 2009 08:36 AM
Aaaah, but please let us have our personal whines!
We all have our things we like to complain about. I think the only time people really get bent out of shape is when one whines about what another cherishes; then the back hair rises ...
... and I've got a lot of it!
EWWWW!
(hee hee)
Micheal's right, ebay is what it is, and my ship didn't come in, (Popeye Meets Ali Baba), but it will show up again and perhaps my long wait will pay off for it.
In fact, a long wait DOES tend to pay off in the end!
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 07, 2009 09:55 AM
Ya know, collecting is a funny thing.
I bet at least one third of my collection is made up of things that I got caught up in bidding for or was a spur of the moment desire.
I wouldn't be surprised if I end up letting go one third of my collection over time, (a long time )
But then there are those items that you REALLY want, and when you do finally get a good copy, your quite happy, (and when you get them by fair-play, it's even better!).
I'm reminded of my long search for "Hoppity Goes to Town". I went through five bad prints in a row, and then, out of nowhere, I recieved those two GREAT prints, all at one, and two for less than the price of one of the bad that I bought from overseas!
The victory was sweet!
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Mitchell Dvoskin
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 128
From: West Milford, NJ
Registered: Jun 2008
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posted August 07, 2009 06:25 PM
I don't understand what the fuss over sniping is all about. eBay is not and never was an auction in the traditional sense of the word. What they are, and have always been, is a highest offer received by a given time. That being said, eBay has never recommended that you sit on line and keep upping your bid, and that is not how they designed their system. They want you to put in the maximum you are willing to pay, and let them raise the increments up to your maximum as needed. Since this is the way eBay is designed to work, it does not matter whether you put your max bid directly into eBay, or use a sniping service. Ultimately, the highest bid is going to win. The only people who lose out on this are those who are using eBay incorrectly by incrementing their bids themselves.
I have used eSnipe.com for over ten years now, and have never had a problem with them not placing the bid.
If eBay did not want automated software to be able to place bids, they could have ended it simply by requiring you to enter randomly generated (in a graphic) letters and numbers, as many event ticketing sites do. They have not because sniping does not interfere with the way they wish their site to work.
eBay does have a serious problem with shill bidding, especially since they made it impossible to see who you are bidding against, or even who won a action. This is one more reason to never bid more that you think an item is worth.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 07, 2009 09:17 PM
Just one last comment from me about sniping ...
First, a concession ...
I must concede one point about sniping. One statement about sniping I could go along with. Say you were going to be on vacation and you honestly wouldn't be able to place a bid. I could understand it then, as there would be no way you could do so otherwise. Hey, if something makes sense, I can accept it. Still the sniper would risk paying a terribly high amount for an auction, but that is they're risk.
No, my point about fairness was this ...
Of course, no one knows the sniper is there. If it was known that a sniper was there, what would be the point of even bothering to bid? You know you wouldn't win anyhow, no matter how high you bid. About the only pleasure you would have in bidding on an auction that a sniper has already won, (for in truth, that is what has happened) is making the sniper really pay out his or her butt for the auction.
The existence of snipe bidding eliminates the auction, period. There is no auction. It's already bought. The only question is how much will the sniper pay.
Therefore, it's certainly not fair-play.
I know I sound like some darned boy scout, (and believe me, I never was a "boy scout". It wasn't until I was older that I actually developed a conscience and morality about things.), but that's pretty much it.
Those that play fairly and honorably may be silly to most people these days but, (and this I know from experience), when your in the foxhole, and you want someone watching your back, you want the "boy scout", not the guy looking out for themself.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Glenn Brady
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 117
From: North Carolina, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted August 07, 2009 10:26 PM
Osi, you seem determined to fabricate 'facts' to support your argument that those who bid in the closing seconds of eBay auctions, with or without a proxy service, are without conscience and morally inferior to you. Such a position verges on the idiotic.
You write, "If it was known that a sniper was there, what would be the point of even bothering to bid? You know you wouldn't win anyhow, no matter how high you bid." This is just wrong, laughably so. If you bid early in an auction, offering, say, $200.00 for an item that had a starting price of $9.95, how would a sniper know you've offered $200.00? All that he/she sees is a bid of $9.95.
You write, "The existence of snipe bidding eliminates the auction, period. There is no auction. It's already bought. The only question is how much will the sniper pay." Wrong again, for the same reason. Sniping doesn't imply clairvoyance on the part of the bidder.
You write, "Therefore, it's certainly not fair-play." Wrong again, but it's clear that you're on the 'morally superior' bandwagon and aren't getting off no matter how wrong you are.
You write, "I know I sound like some darned boy scout, (and believe me, I never was a "boy scout". It wasn't until I was older that I actually developed a conscience and morality about things.), but that's pretty much it." No, you sound like someone who hasn't got a clue. Sniping an auction isn't an assured way of winning an auction. Figure it out.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 07, 2009 11:11 PM
Hey, I just thought of something! When I was reading Brady's hilariously entertaining comments, his remarks did make me think of something ...
I might actually have sniping and something else confused, or are they're two forms of sniper bidding?
I may have assumed (wrongly) that a snipe bid automatically enters a bid 50 cents or a dollar higher than the highest bid, just enough to win an auction. Am I wrong about that, or are there snipe programs that WILL automatically do that, as I have heard that they're are programs that do this, or are they called something different altogether?
Still, if I was wrong about snipe bids, hey, I can always learn.
Still, the Brady IS amusing!
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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