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Author Topic: Snow White Blu ray
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4917
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 05, 2009 12:41 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the Blu Ray of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs hits the stores here tomorrow. I shall be out early to pick up a copy. Advanced word is that it is simply stunning.

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted October 05, 2009 03:40 PM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another review would be gratefully received Paul.
And is this also region free, he asks hopefully. [Smile]

Chris.

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Chris Quinn Rides again.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4917
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 06, 2009 06:57 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris, I picked up my copy today and I will be glad to post a review in a day or so. Snow White is everywhere in the stores here today - it looks like being an enormous seller for Disney.
While in the store, they had the Ultimate Collectors Edition on sale for $159.99. I had to really work hard to resist the impulse to get it - it is out of this world [Eek!] . And I thought the Oz package was awesome........

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Craig Hamilton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Luton
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted October 06, 2009 08:27 PM      Profile for Craig Hamilton   Email Craig Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok Mr Quinn, you win.......

We will make arrangements for a demo of your blue ray - vp projector when I pick you up on the way to Ealing. I remember how you were like a kid in a sweet shop when you got your fist Panny projector. Reading your reply’s to the other blue ray reviews of the wizard of oz, you now sound like a kid on Christmas eve [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] .

Paul

Next Easter, myself and the family will be visiting Florida for a ten day vacation at Disneyland. we would like to meet up with you and Betty one night at a restaurant for a meal and a chat.

Craig

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I dream of becoming a dealer!!!!!!
Is Perry's Movies for Sale.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted October 07, 2009 08:28 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Craig, I have emailed you.
Don't forget to buy a ticket for the baby Pathe! [Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10124
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted October 07, 2009 08:28 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, though I'm not into BR, I would encourage those who buy them to go on the internet to find them. They have the deluxe OZ for only 59.95 instead of the over hundred dollar price, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'll do the same thing with Snow White.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted June 21, 2014 05:26 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Why not Osi?? Believe me the images when projected are stunning even on very large screens. I love nostalgia, I love super 8, but at the end of day, Rob Young is Soooo... correct in his latest posts.

The present and most certainly the future ought to be embraced, I for one cannot wait until I get to screen 4K movies at 16ft wide at 2400 lumens No scratches to worry about, no dipping or dodgy soundtracks to worry about,no projector noise to drown out and no Anamorphic lens to keep in focus!!

BTW 2400 lumens,that even beats a HTI or Xenon, and at a fraction of the cost. The time has come to embrace the future me thinks !!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 21, 2014 06:46 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I agree with you 100% Andrew. I suspect you and I are both in the same boat here, loving the incredible quality of present day home digital projection, but still getting immense and unique enjoyment and satisfaction from reel film projection.

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted June 21, 2014 11:41 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
And I also agree with you 100 percent, Andrew -- I just got my basement finished with a full-blown home cinema, and am looking forward to actually watching the movie itself (rather than watching the projector) without constantly fiddling with the focus, engaging in a crap shoot as to the quality of any given print's soundtrack, and fading color on 35-plus-year-old prints. Don't get me wrong -- I enjoy the film experience, but I have to agree with Rob Young, particularly when the visual and sound quality are clearly (and consistently) superior to the overwhelming majority of Super 8 prints I have seen and own. Let's face it, there are not many technologies that have had the long run that film has had (100-plus years), but let's embrace the new and the advantages it brings. I also work with production technologies in my work life, and video shot at 24 fps has an outstanding film "look," and is breathtaking even when pushed to the limits of a massive pano screen. (Plus, video in my home cinema affords me the luxury of watching sporting events in a theatre environment. Life is good!!)

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted June 22, 2014 01:50 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yesterday night, I watched silent black and white 30 and 60 feet 9,5 cartridges (with the notched system). The picture was not really bright. Needless to say, as these films come right from the twenties and the thirties they were more that one or two lines. Home movies had no notch so I had to change the cartridge after about one minute. And each time, I had to rewind the films with an hand cranck. Why did I do that instead of watching a dvd ou a blu ray ? Because I enjoyed it much more than watching digital. Everybody has his own opinion on the subject. That's just mine.

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Dominique

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
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 - posted June 22, 2014 02:39 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul

Snow white has been out on Blu-ray in NZ for quite a while. I did buy a BR copy at the time and without doubt it is good, but felt my Derann Super 8 print which I screened shortly after watching the Blu-ray was better.

Sometimes Super8 just shines with better color saturation etc and in this case I felt Snow White on Super8 did just that.

Graham.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 22, 2014 11:45 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have not seen the Derann S8 print of Snow White Graham, but I can certainly believe what you say. The Disney prints on super 8 have a unique and beautiful look which sometimes not even Blu Ray can achieve. Case in point is Mickey's Christmas Carol, where the blu ray looks like crap compared with the illuminous Derann print.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted June 22, 2014 12:14 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I think the early Disney features don't really gain anything by transferring to Hd or Blu Ray. Obviously Snow White is the first and the oldest animated Disney feature and since the Derann prints came from the actual Disney negatives, then you would expect everything to be spot on as as per original in every way (including the very basic mono soundtrack I hasten to add). These early animations have been remastered by the time they make it onto full HD and of course with it, some of the natural charm and originality of the film is of course lost.

I have Mary Poppins on Blu Ray and the opening scenes are full of sparkle etc as J.A. flies through the sky. It really does nothing to place this age of film onto this type of media apart from to present it as sharp as is possible using modern digital techniques and equipment.

By the time you get to "Lady & The Tramp" era of the Disney animations, the improvement is drastic and the quality, sharpness of image and colour rendition is just beautiful on Blu Ray.
Move on again in time to say "the Lion King" era and the whole presentation including soundtrack separation etc etc is just stunning!

In my humble opinion, extremely difficult to imagine things could even get MUCH better, the image quality is simply THAT good.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted June 23, 2014 12:19 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I think that the clean-ups and restorations have actually done a dis-service to these classics.

There are points in the film where there is a still shot, for instance, Snow White peering through dense underbrush, through windows, ect, where the artists chose to hang onto one animation cel ...

Now, on good ole fashioned celluloid, though they hold on one cel for lets say 48 seconds or so, you still have the film grain, which gives the impression that "movement" is still going on.

However, on DVD and Blu-ray, those little portions become obvious, as it literally looks like the DVD or Blu-ray freezes up, which it doesn't, but this is one of the dis-advantages of these restorations and getting rid of the "film element".

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted June 23, 2014 12:28 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Which pretty much cements what I was saying about the earlier Disney features, but what about the later films Osi? They look stunning as so many on here with the decent digital projection equipment confirm.

BTW grain and sparkle are very much present on the Blu Ray editions of the earlier features as spoken about regarding Mary Poppins. I personally think though that this does the format a dis-service as of course on 1080p you expect the whole visual performance to be flawless which of course it is on any of the features from Lady & The Tramp onwards. The earlier ones are just as good (almost) in M.H.O. on DVD or of course.. film and perhaps don't really gain anything from the 1080p presentation.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 24, 2014 12:40 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've only noticed that on "Snow White" and the restored DVD release of Bambi (which, by the way, does look stunning).

It's in the shot where Bambi asks his mother why they had to flee the meadow, and she says

"Man, is in the forest"

You see the "freeze framing" of cels all too evident.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

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From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted June 28, 2014 02:40 AM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While the BD looks very clean, and obviously has had a lot of time, money and care lavished on it, the end result is a crisp, clean 'Saturday morning cartoon' that looks nothing like the original film.
The artists used to pick colour palletes knowing how the colours would mute and change when ending up on the final film stock.
The Disney restorations have often gone back to original atwork colours which by comparison are oversaturated. The grain removal technique has made the backgrounds static and dead, and in many cases the colours changed completely.

This is an example from my IB TECH 35mm of the original Alice in Wonderland release vs the Bluray.
http://i.imgur.com/U4vCt9z.jpg

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 28, 2014 12:29 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, that is a BIG difference!

... and you can't be much more accurate than I.B. Tech

(though it must be also stated to the contrary, that perhaps even the best film stock will only be as good of color as the original master material. If the original master material is off, the I.B. Tech will be off, though I'm betting that your I.B. tech is the more accurate. I've never seen a purple sky, after all ...... well, maybe during a sunset.)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2014 02:32 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed. The Blu Ray looks like crap in comparison to the IB Tech print. But the BR quality is totally dependent on Peter's video equipment, and how well it is calibrated. What was the BR photo taken from, a flat panel display, or from digital projection?

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Pete Richards
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From: Australia
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 - posted July 14, 2014 11:24 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The image of the IB Tech is taken from my Imagica 4K scanner, I run Davinci Resolve 10 to a calibrated FSI studio monitor.
The whole chain is calibrated monthly.
The Bluray image is ripped digitally from the Bluray disc, so no cameras or calibration involved, that is the digital 'original'.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 385
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted July 15, 2014 02:48 AM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
here are my views. whatever the title is, digital projection is far far superior than 8mm,16mm.and 35mm. the quality of hd digital projection in most cases is amazing. i use a epson eh-tw3200. i also have 16mm elf projectors. i enjoy both. but for picture qualty and sound, real film these days im afraid, doesnt even come close.so lets not kid ourselves on that one. you use what you enjoy. simple as.

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Vidar Olavesen
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 - posted July 15, 2014 04:10 AM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage   Email Vidar Olavesen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Couldn't disagree more. 35mm is far superior to the digital video. I guess you are one of those who doesn't care if the picture is stuttering. I really despise the digital cinema with a passion. Film is full of life, HD video is just cold and soulless

But, you are as me, entitled to your opinion

Final question to you ... Do you accept streaming as acceptable too?

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted July 15, 2014 05:25 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul

35mm done well "and I stress that point" can give stunning results, better than any ok digital image that I have watched at the cinema so far.

Even my Derann Silly Symphony cartoons on Super8 look incredibly sharp with rich vibrant color...no digital image can get even close to the quality of those prints.

Graham.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted July 15, 2014 07:02 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I cannot comment about digital home projections but in theathers, the quality is lower than 35mm and in some cases than 16 or even super 8. Even with new digital projectors (in new places), the quality is lower. I am personnally not looking for perfection but, as I several times said, for pleasure. So I will always prefer a real projection rather than a digital one, even if there are lines and so on. I wouldn't mind if digital gave a better picture on a big screen, I would still prefer film. But so far, digital doesn't beat film in theathers (and I saw projections in different countries, not only in Belgium).

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Dominique

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 385
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted July 15, 2014 09:37 AM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i can only comment on my personal experiences. several times i went to my local cinema where 35mm was pretty poor. soft focus, poor colour, poor light output. i saw several films this way and not at the same cinema i might add. when i purchased the same films on blu ray and viewed them at home on my projector the difference was huge.i never have any picture stutter either. i am not knocking anyone for the format they use. as i said, you use what you like best. i have 16mm. not for the quality. but i like sometimes to go back in time and bring back happy memories.after all thats all we had back then. i have been involved with 8mm and 16mm for over 40 years. was a regular visitor to deranns open days and their film nights. seen umpteen of deranns disney releases etc, but not seen anything to match same releases on blu ray.

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