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Author Topic: The Print Police and Forum Tact
Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted March 08, 2013 04:46 PM      Profile for Gerald Santana   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With all do respect to criticism elsewhere on the Forum, why try to sabotage a members auction with interpretations of contrast or color on sales threads? When there are pictures available for the buyer to look at, is it inappropriate to criticize a print made available for sale? What is the motivation behind these comments?

I'm talking about this thread specifically (and others like it):

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004180

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 08, 2013 05:10 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gerard, this is already mentioned on that specific thread. We obviously don't remember each forum members' ID at Ebay.

Better for next time if the seller is member of this forum start the topic with "I put my films on Ebay...if anybody is looking ....".

I believe no one is going to jump with a nasty comment (include me). Timothy starts the thread like he finds somebody's listing and put it up to the forum just in case anyone is looking for it. If the seller is actually him, how could we know?

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Winbert

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted March 08, 2013 05:38 PM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately this has happened to me and I stated it was my auction. I was selling a 16mm 7th Voyage of Sinbad Technicolor print and since it had several splices I got comments such as 'it would be better to buy the super 8 copy', etc. I was being very forward about the condition of the print. The person who finally bought it said in my feedback from him that it was a 'prized possession', so he was thrilled to have it.

I think Gerald has a point.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 08, 2013 06:23 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I stated it was my auction.
No Larry, that specific thread you meant also did not mention that you were the seller. It started with:

quote:
"Ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160362149082&ssPageName=STRK:MESEL X:IT

Price is ...."

I can find that old thread if you want to.

There were four members jumped with naughty comments. Surely no one knew that "stopmo" was actually you.

There is a tendency here that people trying to hide his Ebay ID by not mentioning that the listing concerned was actually his. Then the thing Gerard mentions above can happen.

My ebay ID is : s-8maniac

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Winbert

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted March 08, 2013 07:33 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is just as bad is misrepresentation of a print. I purchased 2 prints from a Forum Member's Auctions and both had damage that was never mentioned in the descriptions. I would rather have a Honest description even if it causes criticism on here. After all, everyone has their own standards regarding a print's quality. And you can't please everyone.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 10, 2013 08:45 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It cuts both ways.

I remember when I was selling that print of "Wolfman", numerous people jumped in to say that the print, (mind you, not my actual print I was selling but other copies and EVERY print is slightly different, even on a same print run) was faulty in this way and that, and while it did eventually sell for a decent price, it really ticked me off as all the comments were not representative of th print I was selling, (and not even mine, it was one of Fred's prints), only representative of other prints of the same feature.

At least, when I have commented on an auction, I'm commenting on actual screenshots from the print being sold or a statement from the actual auction and not talking about a print that I do not have any physical evidence to make an informed statement about.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 10, 2013 09:57 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
That's true Osi, I remember that occasion,It felt like you had to
apologise for selling a copy of the film, which as it turned out was
very good.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 10, 2013 10:09 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, With all due respect, all of the questions in your "for sale" thread were about the print YOU were selling. You're the one that stated it was sepia tone, and that was the reason for the questions. Even though it was Fred's print, you were the one selling it, and in my opinion that makes you responsible for the accuracy of the description. I also think you should have screened the whole film before you posted it for sale.

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Joe Taffis

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 10, 2013 10:59 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I was the one that had the question about the Wolfman print. What happened was I got an email from Fred that he was selling the print. I replied that I was interested but I had heard that some of the copies had a strange sepia tone look on half the image. He never replied. Than I saw that Osi was pushing Fred's same film so I had to ask.
And if I remember right the film was sold with a no return policy and so it was more important for me to find out. For me a soft print or bad color is a deal breaker for me. Otherwise I would have purchased it.
If every print had that look than It had that look. Its like the print of the Little Mermaid. They were all printed SOFT.
I think if you advertise a film for sale here on the forum you should be very honest about the condition. Some of us are pickier than others and the casual ebayer may not notice the tint. But I'm sure I would of!
I purchased a print off of a forum member here and was told the sound was nice and clear. The print arrived without a sound stripe. ???
However what I do believe is that the pricing should not be addressed. Just because we wouldn't pay $90 for a cutdown of the "Rose" doesn't mean someone who just LOVES Better Midler wouldn't pay it. And more if its on Agfa 2S stock!!
That being said I'm pretty sure I may have broken etiquette here on the forum before . [Frown]
I also pop into a Guitar Forum now and again and when a certain type of Custom Guitar builder is mentioned everyone draws their blades! Half say my $149.95 Sears Guitar plays just as well and the builder is crazy for asking $8,000 for his builds.
The other half says it was the game changer for them. They sold all their other guitars and kept the "One".
Different strokes for different folks!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 10, 2013 10:15 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand all sides. I believe the thing that confused were the screenshots from what I believe was Doug's print and I can tell you, the Wolfman print I sold didn't look anywhere near what those screenshots looked like. It wasn't soft focus, (that could, however, been the photography of Doug's print and not the print itself), not did it have a bluish look. It certainly weas a nice sepiatone, however.

I take film represntation very seriously, as I believe that every single member of a forum is one bad print, or mis-represented or outright lied about print, from losing all face around here, and I wouldn't trade you fine lads for all the bucks in the world! [Big Grin]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted March 17, 2013 07:22 AM      Profile for Ricky Daniels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Gerald,

I've said it before when listing prints for sale that if someone is interested in a potential purchase then email the seller directly with all of your questions and if you have no interest in a purchase then 'butt-out' and leave the negotiations it to the seller and potential buyer.

Why some feel the need to comment on matters that do not concern them is plain rude IMO.

Best,
Rick

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 17, 2013 08:38 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I've said it before when listing prints for sale that if someone is interested in a potential purchase then email the seller directly with all of your questions and if you have no interest in a purchase then 'butt-out' and leave the negotiations it to the seller and potential buyer.

Then we have to make a strict rule that posting in that category only to offer the poster's items.

The things is very often that category was used to inform about other's people item that he found for sale that might be of interest the members.

Particulary for the listing mentioned by Gerard, Timothy Price put smiley [Big Grin] that gave me an impression that he found a funny listing and "if somebody is going to bid on that funny listing please do so".

That is why memebrs especially me came first to agree with him that that listing was so funny, i.e selling a bad print for a high price. Not knowing that it was his own listing... [Big Grin]

Plus another strict rule needs to apply if Ricky's suggestion is to be followed that in "for sale" category no any other type of replies is allowed. By this I would suggest to moderators that every for sale posting must be locked straight away.

The bad thing is no one can bump it to put the post back into the first line.

Can anybody agree?

For the first rule I can agree, for the second one I don't.

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Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted March 18, 2013 11:14 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a healthy tension here - or at least, when it works correctly, it's healthy. We've all been ripped off by dishonest or careless sellers. We've all bought "good" prints only to find that unwelcome intrusion of an "unknown" odd defect. So here is a largely fine community of folks who have each other's back. Sounds good, right? Sure, until a sabotage of a good sale occurs, whether intentional or not, then somebody's potentially out some significant dollars.

A good time to take stock of the need for full disclosure and living by the Golden Rule. It's as simple as that, yes?

By the way, over the past few years my direct purchases from those on this forum have been some of the best deals ever. Not all of them turned out as intended, but in all cases praise is deserved for collectors helping collectors keep a great hobby alive. Generally, an honest, helpful, and friendly bunch. Thank you guys and keep up the good work!

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