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Author Topic: Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
Paul Adsett
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Posts: 4888
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 19, 2013 12:46 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I went to play a DVD last night. It was part of a film noir box set, that I purchased about 5 years ago. The DVD player refused to play it, just locked up on the main menu and no way to get out of it. This DVD played fine 5 years ago, but now it is totally useless. There is not a mark on the disc, it looks like new. Since all the discs in this set were presumably manufactured at the same time and by the same DVD manufacurer, it is probably just a matter of time before the whole set gets the same non-playable problem.
Which leads to a really scary thought. Just how long are all the thousands of DVD'S in my collection going to last? Are they all going to be useless in another 5, 10, or 20 years?
Goes to show just how fragile and temporary digital media really is.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted August 19, 2013 01:07 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a copy of "Vertigo", the DVD collectors edition some years ago with the documentaries and everything about restorations and such ...

I won't play now and like yours, there is not a mark or scratch anywhere on the DVD. I won't even play in my DVDROM drive (it's a hybrid DVD) on my brand new PC.

I really wonder (I have no proof for this, mind you) ...

I wonder if the parent company authored the DVD's to be able to play only so many times and then the DVD's would lock up, much like that quickly forgotten type of DVD that was called DIVX (I think actually, the original name was different) that would only allow a certain number of plays ...

They just didn't allow anyone to know that they were limiting the number of plays!

Thank Goodness for film!!!!!!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted August 19, 2013 01:33 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Paul.
Working in media the longevity of recordable disc (DVD-R) is questionable despite many reassurances from named brands. I could site many fun and games when we first started supplying video matter of disc some years ago as the early discs were incredibly unreliable as was the equipment. At the sharp end the video businesses who filmed and presented edited programmes to its customers on the requested disc and it was a constantly unravelling nightmare for us all in the early days. Today I can’t remember the last time I had a faulty disc back (time yet) and the software we use to create them is pretty flawless it should be said.

You will probably know that high street DVD’s are created from a glass master or as we call it a ‘client original’ and the process is ongoing from there. I don’t think the first few years for this type of disc will stand out as the highlight of quality production as it was pretty much a case of who could get the discs out first from the lowest cost, but things have improved dramatically particularly with Blu-Ray which is actually still evolving even into 4K ultra HD.

Back to your question. Having been purchased fairly recently I’m guessing your disc could have been produced by a suspect dupe house or you could just be plain unlucky. Sometimes a player can exhibit a fault as being really fussy playing certain discs but play others perfectly we have found over the years. Sadly many manufacturers are now building players down to a price including blu-ray machines so these potentially will not last. Away from work this is still a great attraction for me towards film and the simplicity of a mechanism which often we can see physically as faulty even down to a simple film lube job on an old acetate film in need of a little help. Sadly with DVD/Blu-ray you are in the hands of a disc manufacturer in some far off bongo bongo land (I think we can still say that) and although the majority of discs are produced to high standard some are not which is perhaps not so much about the technology but poor manufacturing techniques and cost cutting in the 21st century.

Taking my work hat off I must confess to still loving the permanence of film which will see us all in our boxes and beyond. I ran a nitrate feature film which was 79 years old recently and it was immaculate with a small number of original cement splices going through my projector flawlessly.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted August 19, 2013 01:35 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wanted to copy a mini-dv videotape I shooted 8 or 9 years ago on a dvd. Surprisingly, the tape is half ereased : you see the picture but with color spots everywhere. I never trusted video tape, it seems I was not completely wrong.

--------------------
Dominique

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted August 19, 2013 01:43 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Todays top tip! Always store video tapes on any format wound to the end of the tape as it helps stop the transference of magnetic data particularly with mini DV. I have hundreds of camera masters and could pull any one of those to play it today as a result of this practice.

Is it time to project some more film yet?

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted August 19, 2013 02:00 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the mini-dv tape was rewound. I haven't checked the other cassettes so I don't know in which state they are. Anyway, I think that it is time to transfer some of them as you never know even if you will be able to find a working camera to watch them as video camera seem to disappear from stores. There is one tape among the others that I value and I may consider transfer it on film (by filming the tv screen). I just hope it is not too late for this one.

--------------------
Dominique

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 19, 2013 02:02 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I've not had a problem with commercially produced DVDs yet Lee,
but have with home recorded,namely on an LG Recorder, the
second one, same model,that at times won't replay what it has
just recorded, telling me it doesn't recognise the disc.I think
the problem more than likely lies in the technology.I NEVER
experienced problems by not being able to play a video tape.
As with the annoying picture break up on digital, when we had
std TV transmission,there were no problems.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 19, 2013 02:24 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I currently run two DVD players - one a Blu Ray player. Some discs play in one but not so well in the other and vice versa. I've just come to accept this as the way it is these days.

Just out of interest, Paul, have you tried the disc in another player?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 19, 2013 02:40 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I experimented a few times the same problem as Hugh ; at the final step of a recording my dvd recorder gives an error message and it is impossible to read what is on the dvd. With vhs videotapes, I had another problem : several of them would not move when pressing on the play button. However the mecanism was not blocked as it was possible to forward and rewind them.

--------------------
Dominique

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1368
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted August 19, 2013 03:17 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I first encountered problems with Laserdisc's They were sandwiched together and a reaction I think with the glue and aluminium caused laser rot making lots of coloured snow and then unplayable.

I have to return a couple of dvd that only played part way.

Just think later on when the archaeologists are digging into our past, and the find a few artefacts (that would be digital) 2 dvd'd 2 harddisc's and a couple of films. The film would likely be the only thing they could look at.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted August 19, 2013 04:04 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the Voyager 1 spacecraft, launched 30 years ago and now totally out there beyond our solar system, has a gold plated laser disc on board, with photos and film clips of life on planet earth, and detailed instructions on how to get here ( turn right at Mars)! I have mixed feelings about whether it is still playable! [Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted August 19, 2013 05:11 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
It's doubtful if it would be re playable here Paul, no doubt the
brains that sent it off, would not have thought of enclosing the means to replay it.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted August 19, 2013 05:34 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've heard the disc has symbolic instructions on how to play it etched on the surface.

From what I've heard the people at NASA are pretty smart.

They are literally Rocket Scientists.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 19, 2013 06:34 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
No, the point I was making Steve,is it would have been simpler
sending a complete unit that would replay, it's like expecting
the extra terrestrials to have a player, or Betamax video.

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Steve Klare
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 - posted August 19, 2013 06:56 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say sending the disc was mostly a symbolic act, and the odds of any player arriving functional in the vast timeframe of interstellar travel are pretty tiny.

The first one just left the solar system a few years ago, but on the scale of the galaxy it's barely left town

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 19, 2013 07:00 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
How very true Steve.

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Graham Ritchie
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 - posted August 20, 2013 12:13 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I spent quite a bit of money importing "A Night to Remember" DVD from the Criterion Collection. It played fine at the time, but years later became totally unplayable in any machine. The DVD looked in excellent condition and stored fine.....but became a no go [Frown]

I heard the same thing has happened with this particular title to others.

I saw an add....transfer your valuable VHS home movies to DVD before its to late [Roll Eyes] ....mmmm I remember years ago... transfer your home movies "film that is" to VHS before its to late....and so it goes on....what's next.

In truth all my home movie VHS tapes from the early 1990s are still good...no problems so far.

The only "proven thing" to last is film [Big Grin]

Graham.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 20, 2013 04:39 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
it certainly makes you view Digital in a different light.I was of the understanding that digital recording was forever, stored and treated correctly,or is this another "pig in a poke" from the
marketing men. Graham you're absolutely right, even a faded print is viewable.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 20, 2013 09:35 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had exactly the same experience as Graham with A Night To Remember. I now have it on Blu Ray, and only time will tell how long it will last. I checked some other titles in my Film Noir Vol 4 box set, and found that some will play fine and others will not, so apparently the rot is spreading and soon the whole $79.00 set will be useless. I am going to contact Warner Home Video to see what they have tp say about it.
And can soemeone explain why DVD and Blu Ray players dont have a 'skipping' device so you can jump the player out of a bad section of track, like moving the needle on a record player?

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted August 20, 2013 09:45 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My sister and brother in law told me they'd had all their 8mm films (including their wedding film) transferred to DVD.

I gave them the "save the film" speech and got an awkward silence, and then a box of empty reels.

Gulp!

(-and they actually know somebody with a couple of working movie projectors!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted August 20, 2013 09:51 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have also a colleague who had family 8 mm (most shoot in the Congo when it was still belgian) transferd. She told me that the work was not well done. I offered her to show her films with a projector. "I haven't the films anymore". There is no way for me to understand somthing like that.

--------------------
Dominique

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted August 20, 2013 10:00 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A friend had tranfers done of his Super-8 films shot during his tour of duty in Viet Nam to VHS.

He said "It's better"

-since when is a copy ever "better"?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Robert Crewdson
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 - posted August 20, 2013 10:08 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grahame, I have A Night to Remember, if you want a copy made.

I remember when CDs first came out, and a few years later there was complaints about the layer peeling. Never had any problems with DVDs myself, and some are about 8 years old. I am hoping all the home movies I shot on a camcorder are OK for the future. I always go for a respected brand, Philips, TDK, etc.

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted August 20, 2013 12:07 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now, I have never had a single problem with Laserdiscs playings. All of them, after, (in some cases, 20 years), still play just fine.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted August 20, 2013 08:06 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I couldn't comment on that Osi, but I was of the belief, that when a DVD was purchased. like vinyl, or any other recorded media, it
was not of a finite life, by that I mean a limited amount of viewings
or shelf life calculated.If this be the case, I WELCOME PIRATING.

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