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Author Topic: Anyone projected 4K upscaled Blue Ray etc
Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted October 26, 2016 04:37 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm waiting for 16k...

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 26, 2016 05:08 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Del, what I meant was that 8K isn't coming soon on a domestic level, as your quotes support, but admit that wasn't quite ckear.

Very much aware of NHK and its development of 8K

I suppose what I meant was don't be afraid of 4K as being something that will be instantly superceeded as it will be around and develop for many years yet.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted October 27, 2016 01:03 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm looking forward to my December optical and hearing tests as they will no doubt yet again confirm I only have analogue version 2.0 ears and 2k resolution eyes which will save me a fortune on unnecessary future digital home cinema upgrades.

BTW: Does a crap movie become a great movie the higher the resolution it is shown in?

Kevin

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted October 27, 2016 01:52 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just look on the higher resolution of the display showing less of the actual pixels on a large screen. Remember the "Chicken wire" effect of early LCD projectors?
AT present the 4K displays in shops seem to be showing demonstration scenes that look as good as the same sort of scenes shown when HD came in, slow moving traffic in panoramic vistas. Of course when you get to real action motion blur takes most of that away, as it does in real life. I won't hurry to upgrade.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 27, 2016 02:37 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, as discussed, 4K isn't all about resolution.

Is a crap movie better in 4K?

Hmm...

Maybe an alternative question might be why not aspire to see a great movie in the best quality possible?

Anyway, I'm outta here on this one folks...

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted October 27, 2016 02:41 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think my negativity towards the newest digital display toys stems from spending a fortune as an early uptaker on just about every new format over the years. I was projecting via DVD in the mid 90's via a £2000 (then) LCD projector which - when fitted with a UV filter and slightly de-focussed to reduce screendoor just about produced a watchable colour or grey and white (never black) image. Umpteen changes of video projector, HDDVD, Bluray players, etc. and many £1000's later now I really don't want to bother making the movie studios and equipment developers richer by buying into the latest must have wheeze.

Even so called broadcast HD TV is a farce - via Freeview HD all the signals received are only 720p (1080i) so here we are in 2016 and they are only just HD Ready let alone 4k plus. This will surely look even worse by the time an upscaling chip has mutilated the signal even further to fit the 4k screen.

You are right Rob, yes I certainly do aspire to see a great movie in the best possible quality - I will be screening some 35mm at home this weekend.

Kevin

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted October 27, 2016 07:47 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No probs Rob, crossed wires [Wink]

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted October 27, 2016 10:12 AM      Profile for David Hardy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a bit of a paradox with all this Hi-res malarkey.

If you "upgrade" (ahem !) to 4k on say a 42 inch TV and have always viewed your TV from the same distance X you may not see any real improvement unless you happen to sit closer to the screen.

So insofar as TVs go it means you can sit closer to your set
and see less artifacts when compared with standard Hi-Def TVs.
Of course you will see more detail.

However sit a lot farther back from distance X from your set and
the so-called upgrade negates itself.
In short there is no real perceivable advantage in having gone 4k unless you sit closer to your screen.

So you really need to upgrade to a much larger screen to gain
any real significant advantage from 4k.

Best to view such stuff via a good quality Video Projector on as
large a screen as you can in your "Home Cinema " set-up.
In order to get full benefit of 4k or even Blu-Ray discs.

Well that's my findings anyway.

The thing is ENJOY !!!

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted October 27, 2016 10:55 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Wholeheartedly agree with David -- "the thing is ENJOY!!" Life is way too short for teeth-gnashing about the march of progress.

Watching IT'S ALWAYS FAIR WEATHER last weekend in my home cinema, I never would've thought in my 45 years of film collecting that I could attain such stunning picture and sound quality that today's technology affords.

Not sure why that's considered such a bad thing in some circles .... ?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 27, 2016 11:41 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree entirely with both of these last statements from John and David here.

And let it be said also, that even some 720p projectors like what Graham here has demonstrated here before now, can produce some gloriously sharp and beautiful images from a Blu Ray disc without even having the full native resolution panels in order to do so.

Blu Ray simply produces breathtakingly stunning images even on modest home cinema dedicated projected displays of a reasonable quality.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 27, 2016 11:49 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, this is the last I'm saying on this, but clearly little of what I've written has been considered.

For one final time, 4K is NOT simply about increased resolution...

Kevin, I too wasted a load of hard earned cash over the years on various video projectors, most of which weren't so good.

Anyway, non of this is worth falling out over...it's all just a hobby and we're all here to enjoy our movies in whatever format makes us happy.

Right, that said..I'm off now to run a Halloween film show...on super 8! For real! [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 27, 2016 12:03 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Brilliant Rob, just brilliant!

What titles are you thinking of running may I ask?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted October 27, 2016 12:39 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, you and me both, I once spent £2,000.00 on a video projector and ended up selling it for £50.00, technology can kill you. The one I have now is brilliant and to be honest I can see me keeping it for donkey's years, the picture is unbelievable.
Off now, it's Thursday night film night and the GS is calling me [Big Grin]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 27, 2016 08:49 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What blu ray discs, and today's home digital projectors have done, is to make the home cinema as good as, or perhaps even better than the professional cinema. That is something that has never before been possible, unless you have a 35mm set up in your house.
When I was a youngster I dreamed of being able to project motion pictures in my house, and my first projector, the lowly Pathescope Ace, was literally a dream come true in Christmas 1954. Then I dreamed of sound movies, but sound projection was totally out of reach until 1975 when I purchased a Eumig S802. Another dream come true. For the next 20 years I enjoyed showing 20 minute digests and shorts, and then started buying a few of my very favourite feature films, some even in CinemaScope. I thought that was as good as it would get. Then in 2004 I borrowed an LCD digital projector and showed a DVD of Casablanca on a 6 ft screen and it blew me away. That experience has evolved into high definition Blu ray projection on a 10ft wide screen, and a picture and sound quality that I never could have imagined being possible for a home cinema.
4K projection is something I might look at in a couple of years when it has matured, but I very much doubt that it will offer a quantum leap in picture quality comparable to Blu Ray versus DVD.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 28, 2016 04:11 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I totally agree Paul and as you say,we have all been very fortunate to have arrived where we have today and all lived in the era to witness such remarkable progress within the home cinema arena!

I wonder what Derek Simmonds would have made of today's standards of digital projected imagery?

I often wonder if he would still had bothered trying to compete with it had he had been born just a few years later?

Something we will never know, but just out of his shear love of film, it's something I'd like to think that he would have done, just for old times sake for us aging old romantics! 😀😀

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2016 08:17 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, I have a feeling that Derek would still be producing some 8mm prints, albeit on a much smaller scale than previously. Derek just loved 8mm and I think he would still be having his open houses and Blackpool convention.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 28, 2016 09:09 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm glad you said that Paul.

That's the way I like to imagine things would have turned out had he had been given a little longer with us all [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 29, 2016 03:05 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Further to my earlier comments, there is one aspect that nobody seems to have mentioned important to film collectors. There were many films issued on VHS and DVD that have not been upgraded and released on BLU ray. Many old films are still appearing on standard DVDs but not on Blu ray. I certainly agree about the comments regarding viewing distances. I am old enough to remember noticing the grain of some prints in some old cinemas (Flea Pits} if unfortunate enough to have to sit in the front row of the Stalls. I will not be upgrading further either, not only because of cost but also as someone else has mentioned, my eyes and ears are no longer as good as they used to be. Unfortunately bits of me are starting to wear!! Ken Finch. [Smile]

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted November 01, 2016 05:30 AM      Profile for David Hardy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken... I second you on that one regarding aging eyesite.
Yes viewing distance is most certainly a vital factor when judging image detail on a screen.

I learned this during my 1st year training as an apprentice Cinema Projectionist away back in the days when such people
as myself existed to operate the equipment and put on a film
presentation.
We were "showmen" then.
[Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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