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Author Topic: Do We Want 16mm Quality On Dvd's ?
Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 702
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted November 03, 2017 11:43 AM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An unusual subject so I shall explain.....

I have just watched the John Huston version of "Moulin Rouge" on dvd starring Jose Ferrer and Zsa Zsa Gabor. The dvd was released through Wienerworld and was a region 0 disc.
The transfer was completely unmastered. Lots of speckled scratches and an audibly crackly mono soundtrack. It appears to have not been colour corrected either, as, if I had been selling this as an 8mm or 16mm film, I would have had to describe it as "colours starting to fade and has a pink hue to it."
It also did appear to have come from a 16mm copy as it just has that "feel" to it that "image quality" that told you is wasn't 35mm.

Looking at it in one way, it was kind of uplifting to watch a film with that "celluloid" feel to it, together with the shortcomings we are facing nowadays,as film collectors, with fading colour prints, even though it was dvd.

On the other hand.....Should 16mm images be left only in the celluloid format? Due of the level of technology that video/dvd is at nowadays, should our expectations be to only accept remastered sound and picture quality from 35mm or 70mm prints for dvd to gain the highest possible transfer quality, and accept no less?

Colleagues...... I await your responses.

.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10187
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted November 03, 2017 12:10 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the film was originally shot on 16MM than yeah, sure (as in the beatles "Magical Mystery Tour", which looks incredible for a 50 year old film shot on 16MM or, from what I understand, "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre"), otherwise, no, in my opinion. [Smile]

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 702
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016


 - posted November 03, 2017 01:18 PM      Profile for Melvin England   Email Melvin England   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes,of course Osi, not withstanding those that were actually shot on 16mm!

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1770
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted November 03, 2017 03:57 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to see El Mariachi on DVD or Blu Ray from the 16mm negatives. The DVD I have is from a 35mm blow up print and as the director says the colour and contrast are not as good as the telecine of the negatives he used for test editing - sequrence of this is on the DVD.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2935
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted November 05, 2017 12:21 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say it partly depends on what's available. E.g. last year a community cinema in Croydon that I'm involved presented a rare screening of a 1957 British Rank production 'The Bolshoi Ballet', with a short talk, to mark the 50th anniversary of when half the film was filmed at a former Croydon theatre. We found it's virtually a lost film in the UK, and the only means of showing it was via a German DVD release. Gaining the rights was another saga in itself. It was obvious that the master had been a 16mm print and we gave some thought to whether we should screen it, especially as we would only normally contemplate DVD as a last resort. But we decided that the picture would be acceptable and the evening was a great success. Demand for tickets meant we had to organise a second screening. Ironically, the grain evident from the 16mm print made it look, in a way, more cinematic and less 'digital' than if a pristine transfer from 35mm had existed!

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Adrian Winchester

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4829
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 05, 2017 03:10 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A of DVD's were straight transfers from video sources. Not so much, but in the early days of DVD's they were just releasing everything just to get it out there on disc and pull in the profits, i learned this very quickly in the early years of DVD so i soon learned to read up about the disc's releases before buying to ensure it was always a restored or remastered version.
Especially on the older films, Osi, you are correct, TCSM was shot on 16mm, there certainly nothing wrong with anything shot on 16, a lot of TV series were shot this way and we have just bought a mint A1 copy of an episode of the Professionals and its every bit as good as any major movie ive seen. [Wink]

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted November 10, 2017 08:28 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's a big difference between what Melvin saw (a worn and faded release print) and responsibly archived source materials. The only time I've seen worn release prints used for video transfers were public domain or renegade knock-off videos. I know there are other ones in the rare instance where master materials are lost. 16mm to DVD or HD is great if that's what you're SUPPOSED to be seeing, not if it's just what happened to be lying around.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted November 19, 2017 04:59 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The lesson to be learned is that if you want that 16mm or even 8mm 'filmic look' is don't buy a DVD or Blu-Ray that has been digitally remastered or restored to much.

I found this out for myself years ago when i replaced an old set of the Dollar Films Trilogy with the new digitally remastered transfers. I found i liked the un-remastered transfers more as they looked more like a 16mm film print.
[Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1148
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted November 19, 2017 10:28 AM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you want an example of what a film shot on 16mm can look like on Blu-Ray, look for "The Rum Diary" with Johnny Depp. It was shot in Super-16mm by Dariusz Wolski, and is gloriously vibrant and sharp:

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C.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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