8mm Forum: Stereo Sound on films. You can keep it i dont need it !

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » General Yak » Stereo Sound on films. You can keep it i dont need it ! (Page 2)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Stereo Sound on films. You can keep it i dont need it !

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 15, 2017 06:44 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I have very naughty trick I play sometimes to get my point across regarding stereo sound.

One of my Quad Hi Fi systems is comprised of a pair of Quad Electrostatic loudspeakers and a Quad 33 Pre-amp / Quad 303 Power amplifier.

I invite friends or guests to listen to some of my stereo recordings on it via Vinyl / CD / Reel to Reel tapes or Music Cassettes.

They always marvel at how great and transparent and natural the sound is when compared to conventional moving coil or horn loudspeakers. They mention how wide and deep the stereo sounded and it was almost as if they were at a live event.

I then with a grin on my face point to my Quad 33 Pre amp control button settings.

You should see their faces when they realize that I have pressed in the two buttons for Mono sound via left and right channels.

What they had been listening all along was a STEREO fold down to a MONO source and they couldn't even hear it... I rest my case ! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

| IP: Logged

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted December 15, 2017 07:46 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

What case?

| IP: Logged

Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

Posts: 447
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Jan 2010

posted December 16, 2017 12:57 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Rob explained it sooooo well and precisely...

| IP: Logged

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted December 16, 2017 10:59 AM

Email Steven J Kirk

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

David, your friends are either very undiscerning or very polite...

'Stereo' means three dimensional or solid. It doesn't mean two-channel. Fox 4 channel magnetic sound in the cinema or quadrophonic stereo illustrate this.

In fact a healthy two-eared person is always listening in stereo even when they are listening to a mono recording. If the doorbell goes or the phone rings you will hear exactly where it is, even behind yourself. So the opposite of what you say is true.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 16, 2017 11:56 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Human beings and animals all have two ears for a reason - so they can determine the direction of sound. Just as two eyes give us visual depth, two ears give acoustic depth.
Every stereo re-record that I have done on super 8 has resulted in a far more impactive film viewing than the original mono film.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 16, 2017 12:40 PM

Email Brian Fretwell

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

As may have been said equipment and room are important. Remember that Stanley Kubrick had mixed "A Clockwork Orange" in Stereo (I assume 4 track magnetic) but wouldn't have it released as such. This was due to, in pre-Dolby days (when there was nothing like the 27 band equalization on each channel that Dolby brought) he thought it would be ruined by the individual cinema set ups.

| IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 17, 2017 10:55 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Oh well guys it seems no matter what I say you will choose to ignore the scientific facts about stereo only existing inside our perceptions and not in nature.

Steve what you are referring to is not stereo but binaural hearing. Not the same thing.

I was going to post some research papers and findings but I will not bother now.

I will say no more on this subject and leave you all to your "stereo illusions".

This matter is now closed to me. [Smile]

[Smile]

[Wink]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

| IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted December 17, 2017 01:13 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Ok, lets get down to real basics, this is me,
Got my own room,
Picture one, two wharfdale speakers 8ohm 100w,
Pic two, Old pioneer stereo amp,
Elmo ST1200HD, through the aux out into the amp, very decent speaker wire going off to the two speakers which when the room isn't a pig sty, (i am currently pulling it to pieces), give out twin, but perfect mono sound. That'l do for me chiefs. [Wink]

[Wink]

| IP: Logged

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted December 17, 2017 05:22 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

David...movies are an illusion. Stereo sound enhances the experience. Not sure why you are trying to convince everyone it's fake or not to like it. If you don't like it then don't use it.

| IP: Logged

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted December 17, 2017 05:23 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

double post....sorry

| IP: Logged

Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted December 18, 2017 01:15 AM

Email Graham Ritchie

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Looks good Tom [Cool]

[Cool]

For Super8 or 16mm I have found that just a couple of single 8ohm speakers is about as good as I can get it, either L/R mono or L/R stereo depending what I screening and as such, selected on a audio four input, one out switch. However as Mark and Paul have re-recorded there films to a much higher standard. I can imagine they would be getting excellent stereo reproduction as a result.

I do like the idea of sound moving with what you are watching on the screen. An example of this, was when I was setting up my amp at home and to hear the results I ran the ""Battle of Britain" DVD. There was a scene, where a Spitfire was going from left to right across the Scope screen, what I did hear at the same time, was sound of the merlin engine going across from my LS..to...L...R...RS speakers. It sounded great.

Sound is a very important part of going to the cinema. One example was when I went to watch "Letters from Iwo Jima" at a cinema in town. It looked good and the sound was OK but it lacked impact. After a few months I managed to get a print and what a difference running it through our sound system, when those battleships opened up.. BOOM.. you could feel it...and so on.

Its not to say that the sound level was to high its not. The amplifiers were of good quality and with heaps in reserve connected to a good speaker system. The amps were simply just ticking over...hence the quality of the sound.

If you are thinking of getting a home theatre amp, buy one thats got heaps of power which of course is more expensive to buy, but you will find it will give you excellent results, without any distortion and simply because you are not pushing it hard.

When the cinema closed I did have the chance to buy the complete Cinema 2 amps in there rack for less than a single cheap home theatre amp....it was a mistake not to to grab them, although it might have been a wee bit over the top having them at home [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

[Smile]

| IP: Logged

Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted December 18, 2017 02:50 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Graham,
Yes I get great stereo reproduction on the films I record,you get so much more out of the tracks. If anyone has the Elmo stereo test film then that's a nice example of good stereo sound straight out the box,the Spitfire scene you mention is very similar to the go carts on the test film,with DVD sound rerecorded onto film you do get some fantastic results,Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

| IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted December 21, 2017 01:51 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Bill ... I know movies are an illusion. I also know Stereo sound is a bigger illusion than Mono sound.

However given a choice and as I am a greater fan of Silent Movies than Talkies , Stereo sound does absolutely nothing to enhance my viewing experience.

In the same way as in a purely audio sense Stereo sound does nothing to enhance my appreciation of a classical piece of music any more than a well recorded Mono version does.

Its the performance that counts.

So for me the movie is primary the sound secondary. [Wink]

[Wink]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

| IP: Logged

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted December 21, 2017 02:09 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I enjoy both mono and stereo sound on movies as well as lp's. A good mix in either mono or stereo can sound great. I also enjoy silent movies as well....I like stories told by the camera.

| IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 21, 2017 03:30 PM

Email Brian Fretwell

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Either way, Mono or stereo, if the sound breaks the illusion of the film it is bad for you.

| IP: Logged

Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted December 21, 2017 04:28 PM

Email Graham Ritchie

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Regarding sound to "enhance" your viewing experence, well you cant beat this folks [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

https://youtu.be/U1fu_sA7XhE

| IP: Logged

Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted December 21, 2017 05:21 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Another one I've done Graham,stereo trailer and my 2x400,sounds awesome,Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

| IP: Logged

Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

posted December 21, 2017 06:58 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Well if you want good Stereo or Mono sound if you have the room for it go 35mm and you'll never look back.

I now find myself not running Super 8 or 16mm for that matter anymore. I think it's down to how inferior the quality is on both gauges compared to Blu-Ray or HD for that matter.

As you know some Super 8 prints can be printed soft along with neg marks etc. Unless you're working from the original negative, from memory the only prints stand out are the Disney's of this world. But do remember these are animated features so the quality is limited in what you'd expect from a cartoon in any format for that matter.

With 16mm, you have mono sound, cropped image, pan and scan, TV prints, faded prints and library prints which are a lot to be desired for unless it's the only print you can find of that title.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2