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Author Topic: Blu Ray Disc Rot
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4520
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2018 11:03 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I had hoped that Blu Ray discs would be immune from the disc rot experienced on many DVD's, as Blu ray discs are supposedly more resistant to damage. Unfortunately this is not the case. In the past month I have experienced two totally non playable blu ray's;

Cleopatra 50th Anniversary Edition, 20th Century Fox
- both discs non playable 2 years after purchase.

Patterns - The Film Detective, non playable 9 months after purchase.

I would like to know just how frequent this disc rot problem is, after all it is hard to believe that its just one or two discs failing here and there. More likely that a whole batch of discs are failing due to manufacturing defects. But of course the stores will not accept returns months or years after purchase, and the manufacturers will not replace them.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 09, 2018 11:23 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if this is anything like the "DIVX fiasco of the past. Any of you folks remember that?

The DIVX (when they were competing with DVD) turned out to have only a certain number of viewings and then, they wouldn't play anymore.

Though they never stated publically, i wouldn't be surpised if Universal did this with some of they're releases on DVD, as i has two of the deluxe DVD versions of Alfred Hitchcock films (Vertigo/Rear Window) that had absolutely no wear to the surface of the disc at all and yet, both mysteriously stopped being able to play back! [Frown]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2018 11:37 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's the thing Osi, they suddenly stop playing, with no visible defects on the disc. It would be literally criminal if manufacturers are somehow incorporating a limitation on playtimes into the discs.

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted February 09, 2018 11:42 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far Paul I have had no problems with any blu-ray discs and only had one DVD and that was "A Night To Remember" that failed and that was a import from the US years ago.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 09, 2018 11:53 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The version of Cleopatra that I have is the beautiful collectors edition with the digibook. This version is hard to find now, and even if you can it costs about $50.00. So last night I went to Best Buy and got the regular blu ray version for $6.99 and have replaced these into the digibook.
The movie itself is truly spectacular. Cleopatra's entrance into Rome is just awesome, and the projected picture quality is truly stunning. That said, I am not a fan of these 4 hour epic's. Give me a good 90 minute film noir any day.
Graham, I also had A Night To Remember DVD fail on me. It was the Criterion edition, and I have now replaced it with Blu Ray version.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted February 10, 2018 02:44 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul, let's try and get to the bottom of this as I've only ever had a handful of DVDs fail in the last 20 years, and all with explainable reasons.

As this is quite worrying, do you mind me asking which player you are using?

Osi,

"Though they never stated publically, i wouldn't be surpised if Universal did this with some of they're releases on DVD, as i has two of the deluxe DVD versions of Alfred Hitchcock films (Vertigo/Rear Window) that had absolutely no wear to the surface of the disc at all and yet, both mysteriously stopped being able to play back!"

Not a chance that limited playback was implimented deliberately on a sell through DVD.

Although firmware in early DVD players could cause tantrums with some later DVD discs and vive versa, causing playback issues.

Osi, did you play the same discs on same or different machines?

That's why the ability to firmware upgrade Blu-ray players is so useful in this day and age.

Also, Paul, as I'm sure you know, Disc - Rot is a term originally developed to explain the decomposition of the adhesive layer on analogue Laser Disc system and render some unreadable, so I think we need to explore this further before jumping to the conclusion of disc degradation?

Although the term was subsequently applied applied to physical failure of CD, DVD, etc. Disc - Rot is usually visible upon the media playback areas.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2018 04:05 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Rob,
The blu ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD60 purchased in 2009. I am going to take the defective discs over to my Grandson and see if they play on his just purchased Sony blu ray player.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 10, 2018 04:26 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, good idea to test the disc on a new player.

As your machine is 2009 it could be either a v1.1 or v2.0 profile Blu-ray machine.

All v2.0 Blu-ray machines can use Ethernet or Wi-Fi to upgrade their internal firmware.

All v1.1 machines require a physical upgrade by downloading the newest firmware from the manufacturer's website and loading it into the player's disc draw as a physical image disc.

If the disc plays on your Grandson's machine, all may not be lost.

Do you know if your machine has had a recent firmware upgrade?

I have a fantastic 2009 Pioneer machine that is v1.1 but still plays everything back beautifully, barring one or two discs that present a software conflict.

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/bd/download/bd60/bd60_euro.html

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted February 10, 2018 04:49 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for that link Rob. Right now I view firmware updating as a last resort - I am sure a lot could go wrong and I might end up with a totally non-working player. But if these discs play perfectly on my grandsons player, I will give it a go.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted February 10, 2018 05:58 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If its any compensation I too had this problem with some new Blu-Ray discs that simply refused to play. Even though they had played previously.

All my Philips player needed was a software upgrade to the latest version I downloaded from the internet and transferred onto a USB stick then into my player.

Problem solved !

I hope this is all you need to do as well.

Even though its still a mystery to me why they played before then would not. My player came up with an " Unknown Disc " message. All is fine now though and I can now watch SKYFALL and my Complete "BOND 50" box set and even the good old SOUND OF MUSIC again. [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Paul Adsett
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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 10, 2018 11:33 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you David, that is very encouraging news. [Smile]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 11, 2018 03:15 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, if you go to the Panasonic web site and make a CD carrying the upgrade, it is very unlikely for things to go wrong.

Back in the day, HD DVD players were notorious for "bricking" when performing firmware upgrades, but I think this is very unlikely with your machine.

Updating the firmware is fairly standard practice these days, so all should be well.

I see there is a firmware upgrade as late as 2015 for your Panasonic, so definitely worth doing, even if just to assure correct playback of new discs.

It can be a lengthy process, up to 20 minutes using a disc as the upgrade source, with the machine switching on and off several times, but nothing to worry about.

Version 2.0 machines that have wifi enabled just look for any current upgrades and inform you when one is available, taking minutes to upgrade, although as Blu-ray has become more standardised, fewer upgrades are now required.

If you have never upgraded the firmware from new, I won't hesitate to do it now.

[ February 11, 2018, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Rob Young. ]

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Paul Adsett
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From: USA
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 - posted February 11, 2018 11:23 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you so much for your help and advice Rob. Your reassurance has encouraged me to attempt a firmware upgrade by downloading the file to my PC and then copying to a CD. The instructions say to decompress the file - will two left clicks on the mouse do that?
This blu ray player was quite expensive back in 2009, around $300.00 as I recall. It is a really nice unit, quite large by today's standards, but I like it that way, with build quality much better than the little boxes with flimsy trays of today's blu ray players. It looks good in my A/V rack.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 11, 2018 12:17 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, bit busy tonight, but first thing tomorrow morning I'll run myself through the download new firmware for your player and be in a better position to advise.

As long as your PC can burn CDs you should be ok.

I've upgraded my 2009 Pioneer numerous times over the years.

I'm also running a Panasonic BMP-BDT460 for the last couple of years on my JVC DILA projector, which cost about £180.00 and thus far has been totally reliable.

I rent Blu-ray discs which my £600.00 Pioneer jitters with, purely because of marks or finger prints on the disc, but this Panasonic has proved totally flawless even with noticeably marked discs.

The Pioneer is marvelous with brand new discs, although I have found a couple of discs ("Jaws 2", for example...who'd have thought...) that will not play correctly on it, but will on the Panasonic.

I'm also running a £60.00 Panasonic Blu-ray player on my TV just out of interest and thus far it is OK.

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
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 - posted February 11, 2018 01:06 PM      Profile for Stuart Reid   Email Stuart Reid   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, the lasers in modern CD/DVD/BD players are absolutely crap and are known to fail quite rapidly, this can cause some odd behaviour, such as suddenly failing to play certain titles. Eventually the machine stops playing all titles. Sometimes this will only affect the blue laser for BD, sometimes the red laser for CD/DVD and sometimes both. This happened to me with a 3 year old Pioneer BDP-450 which was very annoying as it is one of the only machines that will also play SACD and DVD-A discs, of which I have a few.

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted February 11, 2018 01:24 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dont half make super 8/16mm easy all this.
So far we have not experienced any problems playing any DVDs or Blu Rays but it is early days. [Wink]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1412
From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 12, 2018 06:38 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I followed the instructions and was able to make a CD of the upgrade.

My only thought is to Google the Panasonic site where you are to ensure you get the US upgrade, not the Europe one just in case.

PS. Tom, I thought the Elmo GS1200 v3 had a firmware upgrade available...could be wrong. [Wink] [Razz] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Confused] lol!

Stuart, try Richer Sounds for their 5 year warranty which only costs about £15.00

My friend had his 4 year 11 month old player replaced with a brand new one when it failed!

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Stuart Reid
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From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
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 - posted February 12, 2018 12:59 PM      Profile for Stuart Reid   Email Stuart Reid   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good old Richer Sounds! Yes I'll give them a go. I'm after the Sony X800 4k universal disc player

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David Ollerearnshaw
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From: Penistone Sheffield UK
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 - posted February 12, 2018 03:57 PM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't we have a 'six' year rule in the UK? If you can prove a defect that affects a lot of machines the manufactures can still be responsible for repair.

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http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted February 13, 2018 09:30 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I was able to download the firmware update file and copy it to a CD, but the player would not perform the update, posting the message "unsupport". Not sure where to go from here, since I know the firmware has not been updated since 2010, and that was using a CD supplied by Panasonic, and the latest update is 2015, so the player should not reject it.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 13, 2018 11:58 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob ...

Yes, I have tried to play the above mentioned discs on various DVD players, my more modern bluray players, (I'm on number two already, as I have used them for playing my DVD's as well as limited collection of blurays), AS WELL AS even attempting to playback on my various PC's over the years, ranging from windows XP to my more modern Windows 8 (Haven't upgraded to Windows 10) ...

I should also be mentioned that at least, in my case, it only appears to have happened with Universal DVD's and not any other company. I mean, I have bargain bin dollar DVD's that still play after all these years, (cheap cartoon collections from walmart) nd yet, these official Univeral DVD's are the only ones that I have ran across that have this problem ...

but i must confess that, in a matter of speakibng, this whole post is rather moot on my part, as i have beautiful bluray copies of both films now. Come to think of it, I really don't know why i still have these silly DVD's lying around.

OSI, the packrat? [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted February 13, 2018 03:03 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, strange it doesn't work as it should be quite straight forward.

I know you will have, but assuming you tried this;

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/bd/downloa d/bd10/ftp_v2/BD_Firmware_Update_Procedure.pdf

Only other thing I can think is that, as I mentioned, it is region specific, so try going for the update via this;

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/bd/download/bd60/index.html

Did you have any success with playback on your Grandson's machine?

It does seem as though your machine is saying no upgrade is necessary with the UN SUPPORT message.

Odd. Still, no harm done, although of course that doesn't help with your playback issues.

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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 - posted February 13, 2018 04:53 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, did you have a chance to try these discs in other players? First thing that came to my mind was also your player's laser deteriorating.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted February 14, 2018 05:24 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul does your player not have a USB input on it ?
This is the way I uploaded my latest software upgrade to my player.

I downloaded the file from the web onto a file on my computer.
Then transferred it onto a USB stick.

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1412
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted February 20, 2018 04:15 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul, I'm assuming that given your disappointment with the firmware upgrade that you're going to leave this alone for now, which is fair enough, but it would be still be nice to eliminate disc failure.

Did you try the culprit discs on your Grandson's player at all?

Still don't understand the firmware upgrade failure, but I'm still looking into it for you!

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