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» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Checked or not checked.

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Author Topic: Checked or not checked.
Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Haverhill, United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted January 27, 2019 02:37 PM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just trying to find out how people like to buy thier films.do you like them fully checked with screen shots and cobdtion description.or are you happy with first 10 mins of each reel checked or not checked at all .just curious.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5447
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted January 27, 2019 02:51 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If we're talking about features, I am sure that few dealers would have time to physically run a print for its whole length.
Most films can give an indication of condition and colour in their first few feet.
A few frame shots should suffice, with detailed comments about condition and, if the film is in colour, the name of the stock.

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Maurice

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Haverhill, United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted January 27, 2019 03:04 PM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Trouble is i had films that i think wow this one is good but then halfway through you get a nasty scratch so i check fully before i sell.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4620
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 27, 2019 03:32 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
personally, i think films for sale these days should be run all the way through and if possible, a few screenshots. if selling on ebay you get 12 free images so if im selling a feature i try and take a few from each reel. If your not selling on ebay then at least if a film has been run all the way through, the description should be pretty much accurate.
i know for dealers who are passing hundreds of films through there sales, then it must be very difficult to view every single print. Impossible I'd say.
Unfortunately for dealers, they can also fall victim to dishonest people selling to them as ive found out when ive received films from most of the known dealers.
I'd be happy buying off you Nigel and a few others as up until now the descriptions have been bang on so really, knowing the print has been fully checked is good enough.
where 16mm is concerned, it seems apparent ,(i'm looking at the copy of speed for sale on ebay), that many of these have mixed stocks. i bought a first class print of the professional last year, its a fantastic print but there is about a half a minute repair piece put in during the last 300ft or so and while 99.9% of the reel is low fade stunning print,this repair section has some fade, this means the reel was not checked all the way through, however, i was looked after on the price [Wink]

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 27, 2019 03:49 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Really, the film should be run all the way through, that way you can sell with confidence in your description. Running only the first 10 mins is not enough. You don't know if there are damaged sprockets, or sellotape covering the perforations. I can understand that running a 2 hour film is a bind, especially if you have purchased a large collection, but the buyer is entitled to know what he is getting for his hard earned cash.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1174
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted January 27, 2019 03:51 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most dealers don't check and will chance sending crap out which is a complete waste of time,I check all my films I'm selling just to avoid disappointment,surely a must do approach to customer care after all it's not a cheap hobby,Mark

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 27, 2019 04:46 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For a while in the 80s I tried my hand at postal bookselling; the first rule I learnt was to check that all pages and any plates were present. Some booksellers don't do this, and I have bought the odd book with a torn out page, and even all plates missing. If you are going to do a job do it properly.

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Brian Stearns
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Lexington
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 27, 2019 08:51 PM      Profile for Brian Stearns   Email Brian Stearns   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup happend to me many times last reel was missing on one another time
Film had missing credits and 3 other scenes. I think these people buy large collections and never screen anything. Or view only first 10 min. I always screen my films before selling.saves hassle later

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5447
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted January 28, 2019 02:44 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'd be happy buying off you Nigel and a few others
So says Tom.
If a member of this Forum is selling a film on the Forum, then we know him, but on eBay there are some fanciful sellers' names.
It would be very helpful if we could know the real name if any of our members are sellers on eBay.
Recent exchanges about a print on US eBay brought a comment "I'm the seller". We then knew who we were dealing with.
There are already some members who say they have films on eBay, and they are to be thanked for being thoughtful.

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Maurice

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 912
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted January 28, 2019 04:10 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the dealer/seller really needs to do is to check the print on a set of manual rewind arms.

That way they can check for any film scratching , torn or nicked perforations , splices , film buckle , dirt debris and film fade .

SIMPLES !!!

[Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted January 28, 2019 04:21 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
All the dealer/seller really needs to do is to check the print on a set of manual rewind arms.

That way they can check for any film scratching , torn or nicked perforations , splices , film buckle , dirt debris and film fade .

I agree.
It's just not possible for all prints be viewed all the way through before selling. Nobody has that much time to spare.
Personally, I tend to keep notes on prints, taken and updated each time I view them. This helps when selling them on.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 28, 2019 02:07 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How long would it take to carefully check a 1600ft spool?

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 28, 2019 04:10 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well if you are screening it about 45 min.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 29, 2019 03:04 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would take as long or longer to check it thoroughly by hand, so you might as well screen it.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3001
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted January 29, 2019 06:16 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only professional traders I know who check films properly are young Barry at Ind 8 and of course Steve Osbourne both being old hands. Its a tricky one this because say you are selling Gone with the wind you will have to view a very long film.

When I sell something which has stood me much expense I always offer to project the whole thing that way at least you have tried to make certain its what the prospective buyer would want. Not always possible over the miles but worth offering at least.

Main thing to remember is this is a physical mechanical medium open to many damage factors, type of stock, miss use even faulty production in the first place from new.

Today it seems many new faces are happy to have a red print full of tram lines but for the old skool it a whole different world of film collecting.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 29, 2019 07:47 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We would all prefer perfect prints, but sometimes it might be a choice between having a faded copy with tramlines, or nothing at all.

So far no one has followed Maurice's suggestion for posting their Ebay monikers. I hope some of the UK sellers on here will do that as I would like to see what a text book description of a used film reads like.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 9801
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted January 29, 2019 11:45 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Definitely good to watch the film all the way thru as, while you might not remember a defect, it might well be there and you don't want to mislead you're buyer.

One time I royally screwed up with a film i listed, I watched it all the way through to be sure that it was great, and it was ...

Little did i know that this particular time, the projector itself left a scratch, right down the middle of the screen. it wasn't green, but it was deep and the buyer rightly wanted to return it which I accepted, but i was so cheesed off that this paerticular projector, (no longer with me), made me look bad! [Frown]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 912
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted January 29, 2019 01:52 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It should only take up to around 8 - 10 minutes to visually check and examine 2000 ft of film on a rewind bench.

Winding at a sensible speed of course.

Well it does for me . [Smile] [Smile] [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5447
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted January 29, 2019 02:43 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It might take eight to ten minutes to check 2000', but what about the condition of perforations? There would also be much more time if old cement joins fall apart and there are torn perfs and vee cuts to repair.
Part 1 of a recently bought 16mm feature (1940s vintage) took me almost two hours to complete to my satisfaction before putting it on my Bell & Howell 655QE to sit and enjoy.

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Maurice

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 29, 2019 02:55 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I was selling a film I would watch it through.... but I don’t expect dealers working with collections or large volumes of films to watch every one. That is unrealistic. Most of the dealers I buy from would accept a return if there was a problem.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 912
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted January 29, 2019 04:38 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice i agree with you there on some "vintage films" but the average 35mm /16mm or 8mm print would never take that long to examine and repair.

However i do remember taking two days on the rewind bench to make up and repair a 35mm print of The Battle Of Britain for projection. I think i removed around 80 + splices and repairing a lot of torn perfs and " V " cuts.

That was the exception rather than the norm though.
[Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Dave Groves
Master Film Handler

Posts: 486
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted January 30, 2019 10:10 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I was selling anything I’d watch the whole thing so I could accurately describe it. But buying from dealers is a different thing. In the past I’ve wondered if some were entirely honest after seeing what they’d sold me. I’d far rather buy off the forum from folk whose names I know and trust

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Dave

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 912
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted January 30, 2019 10:19 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave Groves i feel exactly the same as do many others i am sure.

I now mostly buy from trusted dealers and sellers i know with whom i have established a rapport of trust and honesty over the years.


[Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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