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» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Attn Leon Norris or anybody else TRV Problem (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Attn Leon Norris or anybody else TRV Problem
Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 30, 2019 11:13 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are the pics you requested the first 3 are of the rebuilt unit the next 3 are of a stock trv
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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted July 30, 2019 12:05 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see the nice pictures you posted! Know which machine is the bad one ? Also when you disconnect the connector does the motor stop running? Let me know! Leon.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 30, 2019 07:00 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both machines run slow the top 3 are of the rebuilt machine what do I disconnect?

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted July 31, 2019 10:11 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim, turn on machine let it run then unhook the connector to see which one makes the motor stop running! Then send me a picture of the one connector that made it stop running! Thanks, Leon.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 01, 2019 12:19 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leon is this safe I’m not going to wreck something or getted zapped am I ?

[ August 01, 2019, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted August 01, 2019 01:40 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I need to know which connector runs the motor? Let me know! Thanks!

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 01, 2019 03:30 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leon the connector circled in red is the one that stopped the motor and following the wires it goes right to it.
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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted August 09, 2019 11:39 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim, your going to have to trace what components run to the connector! Does any thing look burnt out? Check the wires also! Let me know!

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 14, 2019 04:25 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok not seeing anything that looks like it’s burnt
Anybody else the unit is not running steady one can hear it while it’s playing and the sound is warped.
https://youtu.be/g-NFztvLPFY
https://youtu.be/_txnaFuBWu4
https://youtu.be/QzRAwVv1UEQ
I have added some you tube clips for others to chime in on getting lots of answers as to what it can be why not add a few more

[ August 14, 2019, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 15, 2019 02:36 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could it be trouble with the flywheel bearings? That would give wow on the sound and variable load on the transport.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 15, 2019 10:05 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian, your the second person to mention the flywheel how would one know the bearings are bad?

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 15, 2019 10:15 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Noise from them or it stopping quickly after a film has gone through (it should keep turning for a minute or two) are a couple of signs.

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 643
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted August 15, 2019 12:12 PM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jim,

I suggest you as an initial evaluation to check Rubber pinch roller efficiency (Quality of rubber, roundness, cleaness, Roller Bracket Return Spring , etc..) :
I see film swinging a lot next to rocker arm (3rd Video), I don't think this is normal.

A Capstan roller bearing(s) failure is very rare, however there are easy to check :
- Remove flyweel
- Launch with fingers Capstan shaft, it has to run (a few second) smoothly WITHOUT any play (AXIAL/RADIAL), no "crunchy" noise, no "hard" point (Lubricate as necessary with thin oil spray (with little pipe)

let us know

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 15, 2019 06:58 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian, your the second person to mention the flywheel how would one know the bearings are bad?

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 16, 2019 08:43 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil checked all the above the pinch rollers are in good health the fly wheel came off next and that rolls smoothly as a matter of fact the film I ran before I took it off the flywheel was still turning when I took the back off.
I have 2 of these units I took the other fly wheel off and noticed that that shaft has the slightest warble on it whereas the unit were talking about has none and that machine does not have this issue I'm swapping out fly wheels to see if that makes a difference.

[ August 16, 2019, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 643
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted August 17, 2019 05:02 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for these informations Jim.

Providing there is room enough around Capstan on this machine, it could be interesting to make a sliding test with a S8 stock lenght inserted between capstan and pinch roller only , when machine is in playing mode.
The S8 lenght will not be drove by claw and sprockets for this test.
When you pull S8 portion with fingers at an equivalent operating speed, driving only capstan shaft (and pinch roller), they have to spin steadily and film come without sliding on capstan.

Do not use a S8 portion which has been treated with silicon !!

Before test, insure perfect cleanliness of Capstan tip, rubber roller, free of any deposit and silicon evidences....
I use "F" Thinner to clean these parts (Same thinner used to clean clothes).

FLYWHEEL Installation : Insure that Capstan shaft can not slide easily on flywheel journal when installed. If this is the case, check spacers and Spring Lug for proper fitting.

Let us know

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4351
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 17, 2019 05:28 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil, if you're refering to "essence F", it may be sold only in France under that denomination. I was advised by some French enthusiasts to use "essence C" to clean films (before stripping since it removes the grease) but couldn't find that product in Belgium. So I bought a bottle in Paris (I would have prefered champagne, though).

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Dominique

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 643
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted August 17, 2019 08:10 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Dominique,

You're right.
At this time , I have not find "C" fuel but I remember it was common in the past. It can also be mixed with some drops of silicon oil to lubricate films.
It is necessary to vent room and use vinyl glothes too.

A good "Champ" , of course, is better for health ! [Wink]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4351
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 17, 2019 08:34 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Essence C is still sold but not dispayed on the shelves. They have to stock it separately so you must ask a seller (I sent in a small shop).
Champagne is never hidden 😀

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Dominique

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 999
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted August 17, 2019 02:18 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it was a tape machine I would look toward the rubber roller and capstan drive, because it sounds like something is slipping on the approach to the sound heads. Do you clean your films with any kind of cleaner, as this maybe the cause, this could be coating the rubber bits making them slippy.... check all the rollers in the film path, should look black with a slight sheen....

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 18, 2019 08:48 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Paul unless the film has been treated by the previous owner I usually do not clean them I usually run the film on a pair of rewinds with my forefinger and thumb as its passing through to see it it leaves any residue behind.

[ August 18, 2019, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted August 18, 2019 09:46 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim you say it runs slow? Well its either the motor or the governor board! Now how does it run with no film in it! Do you hear a change in motor speed? If you don't then its the board! Please check!

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1585
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 19, 2019 10:28 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil the unit ran with a 50 ft sound practice reel just through the sound head then through the rollers no variation though upon rewinding this I could hear the variation slightly.
Then ran another longer film the same way an saw the rocker arm bouncing a bit not as bad as the video.
Leon, I ran the unit both in pre-load position and lamp mode for 5 minutes each and heard a slight variation while in lamp mode several different times.

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 872
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted August 19, 2019 01:10 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim, Does it do the same thing when you take the motor belt off? Do you hear a change in the motor? Let me know!

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 643
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted August 20, 2019 06:08 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Jim for these informations.

At this time , based on your informations, we can consider that the Capstan section is satisfactory for the essential.

Reviewing Your video Nr3, we can see a slight speed fluctuation which can be initiated by a faulty electronical regulation (if it exists....)

This machine is pretty "advanced" and looks to offer many Electronic circuits.
There is a high probability that Main motor speed is regulated throughout a control card :
I suggest you to check if an Infra-red (and an Half "Moon" blade) sensor is installed next to Claw shaft (probably hidden behind big transformer on left)
If yes, check sensor cleanliness and also , as necessary, its connector condition.

Let us know.

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