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Topic: Kevin's Son

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 17, 2007 03:34 PM

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Pathescope Son that is!. I know Kev has aquired one from Lee Mannering, so how is it working Kev?

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 17, 2007 04:42 PM

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It's not

[Frown]

Yes I have the machine but it really needs quite a bit of work to bring it up to scratch.
I had a burn up soon after I received it caused by a connection block in the lamp supply which had a loose screw terminal. This was arcing and caused the wiring to burn. Thats sorted now but then I had some strange clanging noises from the motor. On further investigation I found that the rubber mounting bushes on the motor had perished to dust so the motor was in fact moving about freely within the chassis.

This is now the point have I got to and to be quite honest I'm not too sure if I really want to go on. Its a major strip down to sort the motor out and this means removing the amplifier etc to gain access. On careful examination of the amp I have found Capacitors where the plastic cases have cracked open and Aluminium capacitors where the caps are now coated in white aluminium oxide suggesting that it has been stored in damp conditions at some point in it's life.

I'm thinking this is probably a job for the long Winter evenings especially as I have a couple of GS's to attend to.

Not run any film through it yet and am fairly disappointed that I haven't been able to.

Don't know if I'm going to rebuild the amp or replace it with a more modern design. I think that will depend on how easy it will be to marry a modern amp up to the original photocell or whether i will have to replace that too and with what?

At the moment it just sits next to my Eiki RM1 looking sadly up at me each day with most of its guts hanging out wondering when it will get looked at again [Frown]

[Frown]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 17, 2007 06:30 PM

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Sorry to hear that Kev, sounds like major surgery is required, plus I am sure the standard of design and construction is probably not in the same superb class as Elmo's and Eumig's. I have read elsewhere that Son's are troublesome machines. If you still want to putter around with 9.5mm maybe you should look out for a basic simple silent machine. That's one thing about a hand cranked Pathe Baby, there's just not much that can go wrong with it! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 18, 2007 07:03 AM

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Paul,Kevin's problem with his Son also applies to the Gem.The motor mounting pads simply disintergrate.These projectors are real budget jobs. Make wonderful anchors though [Smile]

[Smile]

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Trevor

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 18, 2007 04:51 PM

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I'm sure I'll get it sorted but its a case of plucking up the courage.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted June 20, 2007 08:15 AM

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Not had much time to mail on the forum of late due to looking after my wife, and also running the old media business. But I have been reading a little when I have a minute which are few and far between.

Re the Son story. Do remember Kevin what I have stated to you may times. These antique machines do need a full rewire before use for safety and to run reliably. As mentioned previously also, I would follow the lead of many other 9.5 enthusiasts and remove the old low power valve amp and insert a modern module which will save you much heartache in the long run and provide far better service. My own Son which I stripped down many years ago and fully rewired and rebuilt is fine and I think this is largely due to ditching the old sound components for new.

As shown in the video clip forwarded before I sent this baby, the motor and lamp work fine. It’s just a case of sorting the sound to your own requirements. These antique machines are certainly not GS1200’s obviously, but can be souped up to give a reasonable presentation at home.

For large screen use I prefer a Vox fitted with a 250 watt lamp as used here, or my beloved Heurtier Tri OSM which is my fave. Also use the Elf conversion, but although they look neat they were obviously intended for 16mm use so when converted to 9-5 it’s very much a compromise I’m afraid.

Think about swapping that old valve amp in the Son for a modern job matey and I think you may well be more happy than trying to restore a not very bright vintage valve amp.
Just a thought.

Happy days !

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 23, 2007 05:15 PM

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Lee, Yes I did see your movie of it running before it was shipped. I think in hind sight you were a brave man for powering it up.

When I first powered it up the lamp was visibly varying in brightness and then the burning started. Shortly afterwards the motor started rattling about. The arcing connection which caused burnt wiring had probably started long ago as it wouldn't have got that bad in just a few minutes. The perished rubber mounting bushes has certainly happened over the years and not days. Yes it may have worked ok for you but as i said earlier you were lucky that these things didn't occur during your filming of it running.

Yes it probably could do with a rewire but most of the cloth covered, waxed wire seems to be in very good shape in this machine. I have however replaced the horrible rubber, cloth covered mains lead.

If you have converted another Son to take a modern amp I would be interested in details of what you used and how you did it please. Did you retain the original Photocell etc and how have you got that powered up separate from the amp? (if it needs to be).
I cant find any details about the Photocell anywhere so am a little in the dark where that is concerned.

Thanks, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted June 29, 2007 03:12 AM

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Hello young man.
We removed the old amp and took to the tip. Today you can buy good modules for amplification, but we used a simple pre amp and power amp with suitable power unit. My outfit took up about a quarter of the space of the valve unit. Yes, ditch the PC and fit a Photo Diode, but you will have to fit a small arm for it to sit on around the sound drum. You will find the sound is very good if you modernise the Son sound side of things which was always a weak point of its design.

If memory serves me right there was a guy who was selling new motor mounts at one time, but I had already changed mine at this time. What I did was to buy some tape washers for pence and cut these to size. Clean up the old mounts and impact glue the washers down. This has held well for a good few years now without problem. I also fitted some felt over the top of the motor to insulate it a little from the top case housing. To finish my machine I has the lamp mirror re silvered for a cost of under £10 and it came back very nice indeed.

Thats about it. Not much of a job and it took me all of a couple of weekends to upgrade it. Remember to smooth the PSU for the amp by the way.

Photo Diodes.
You can get various types of PD suitable for this job. Some have a glass on top to give greater gain, but most folk use one from a U_S 16mm proj I have to say.

Thats about it folks. Better get on with the growing workload here...
Uncle Lee.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted June 29, 2007 03:51 AM

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Guys, I don't know if you realize that Son means Sound. So if you refer to the projector, it would be more proprer to call it with its entire name (Pathe Son). And you don't pronounce the "th". It's pronounced "Patay".

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 29, 2007 05:02 AM

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JM, Yes I did realise that Son meant Sound but thanks for the correct pronunciation of Pathe. I think we Brits always sound the 'th' when we speak of Pathe [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Kev

[Smile]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 29, 2007 08:46 AM

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Even Bob Danvers Walker (the voice of Pathe News) pronounced it Pa th e on his newsreel commentaries.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 29, 2007 03:15 PM

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Thats right Paul he did [Smile]

[Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted June 30, 2007 12:57 AM

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That's what happens with big French companies branching out to English-speaking countries. More recently, the dairy company Danone had to change their name to Dannon in order to avoid US and Brits to call them "Dan 1". [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Did you know that Pathe was still very active? It's one of the biggest production and distribution companies here, and they own a big number of theatres and multiplexes as well.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2007 09:25 AM

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Hi Jean Marc,
Yes that's right. Betty and I watched 'The Queen' the other night, and right up front was the famous Pathe Cockrel. For some reason they have now added an exclamation mark, so its now:

Pathe!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2007 05:30 PM

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Yes I think I have seen the same logo on Pathe DVD releases here in the UK.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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