8mm Forum: Pathe Monaco and Duplex

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Topic: Pathe Monaco and Duplex

Martyn Stevens
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Leighton Buzzard, UK
Registered: Jul 2007

posted August 13, 2007 08:56 AM

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You all know, I trust, that Flickers is about to re-appear?

I recently came across an article in an old Amateur Cine World about half-sixteen, and it sparked an interest in the 9.5 version, Duplex, and the Monaco projector. Does anyone have anything in this area, whether projector, unre-converted camera, film,4.75mm spools, instruction manuals, ACW articles/reviews (copies or scans of the last two aould be fine)or similar, please? Any experience of using it? Any inside knowledge, eg I have heard that it was imposed on a reluctant UK subsidiary by a French head office. Is this true? When precisely was it introduced/discontinued? Was experience different in France?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 13, 2007 06:46 PM

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I believe Trevor Adams down in New Zealand has a working model of one of these Monaco (horizontal VistaVision) projectors, and also a length of exposed 4.75mm film.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2007 04:43 PM

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Hi Paul.I sent Martyn a pic of my beastie(it is at his excellent site).I have seen both 9.5mm and 4.75mm on the screen. The projector yeilds a bright steady enough image in either gauge.The Monaco is labour intensive.Apart from setting the film path for either gauge ,you must adjust ,the claw,the shutter and the lamp.So,changing gauges is not just a matter of flicking the turret from vertical to horizontal [Smile]

[Smile]

As far as I know,no commercial 4.75mm film was ever released.If Pathe had simply decided to make a "widescreen"4.75mm outfit it could well have been a success.Maybe not though,market forces have a habit of determining the fate of odd calibres and the like! [Wink]

[Wink]

Writing to Martyn and Paul gives me an "odd" feeling-sort of like I'm moving in "Ever Decreasing Circles"........hmmm [Smile]

[Smile]

Howard Hughes

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Trevor

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 17, 2007 06:53 PM

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This whole 4.75mm business is really fascinating. You can only imagine the amount of money Pathe must have sunk into this project, only to have it go belly-up within about six months! (kind of similar to the Polaroid/Eumig Polavision debacle on 8mm). It was, if nothing else, a very gutsy venture, obviously targeted at undercutting Kodak's supremacy with double 8mm. But clearly Pathe did not do any advance homework to ascertain the potential market and unfortunately, like a lot of things Pathe, the equipment was quirky and difficult to use. Too bad, because the concept of an amateur horizontal VistaVision format had a lot to recommend it.

....the best laid plans of mice and men....

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 18, 2007 01:30 AM

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You know Paul,quirky ideas and Adams seem to go together [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

,I'm probably the only NZer to have shot a 2 3/4 minute reel of Polaroid film-just to see the magic of Polavision!!Trev

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Trevor

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 18, 2007 09:08 AM

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Hi Trev,
I remember well a day in the late 70's when a guy at work brought his newly aquired Polavision outfit into work to demonstrate 'instant' movies. He ran off a cartridge of film shooting his co-workers, then with great fanfare loaded it into the Polavision player. I was totally unimpresed. The small picture was awful, very grainy with bad color. I thought right then that the system would be a dismal failure. The fact that you could not project the film on a big screen with a normal 8mm projector was a fatal flaw. Unfortunately Eumig lost their shirt on the Polavision project, and it pushed them into bankruptcy. Why they gambled their future on this system is anybody's guess, but you have to remember that Polavision was the pet project of Polaroid's legendary Dr Edwin Land, and both he and the Company had an awesome reputation for technological innovation at the time.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2007 10:26 PM

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I never understood why Eumig got mixed up with Polaroid's fanciful idea either.Every month Ivan Watkins would wax lyrical about "the wizards of Vienna" but it seems they were not overly smart businesswise! [Wink]

[Wink]

Trev

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Trevor

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted September 03, 2007 04:23 AM

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Like you Paul I am a fan of Duplex. Got the t-shirt as they say. When I get a minute I will post a picture of my Duplex Lido camera and film stock. Joy..

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 05, 2007 09:57 AM

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......a great subject for one of your 'YouTube' specials Lee.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 26, 2007 01:30 PM

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Martyn Stevens has just posted Pathe's original design drawings for the 4.75mm Duplex format on his web site. I calculate the Duplex aspect ratio to be 1.5:1, hardly the CinemaScope type of widescreen experience that Pathe advertised!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted October 10, 2007 07:26 AM

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Yes the lad has done a nice job on the site which I just had a peek at. Its folk like Mart who help to keep the hobby a-going.
I have the Buckingham MK3 slimline 9-5 if you would like a pic Mart?

We did the 9-5 rounds when in Paris last week and it was nice to tread the Pathe turf where it all came about with 9-5. Ah the joy of it all!

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted October 16, 2007 08:52 AM

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Hi Paul. At long last here are the pictures of my 9-5 filming kit, and yes folks I still produce 9.5 sound films using the Pathe Lido and Heurtier 9-5 sound projector.

In the first photo you can see the Pathe Lido Classic 9.5mm cine camera which I used to make the film about Dracula that won the 9.5 Internation Film Festival in 2006. Name dropper!

On the lower left can be seen the Pathe Lido Duplex and I have tried to take a photo on the name plate but no easy with my dear wifes pocket camera. The two cameras look much the same from the outside but the gate inside is obviously not in order to cater for Widescreen.

Have a great love of the Duplex system, in fact anything which is a bit strange with the film lark....Just like me, strange that is.

My 9.5 film making kit is kept in the case as shown along with light meter, filers and at present film as we are in the midle of making another flick.

Sound tracks are made thus. I complete the 9.5mm film edit and forward for striping to EVT Magnetics. Prior to this I transfer the film into the Computer edit system (I have a media business by the way) and build a sound track. Once done I transfer back to stripe and job done. Have done sound this way since 1995 prior to starting the media business and the system works well for me.

9.5mm for me has been absolutely fascinating and I have met some great people through it making lasting friendships as well. I have never stopped learning about it in nearly 30 years; it’s a great gauge with lots of nostalgia and history attached to it.
Sure gear is vintage, but its all part of the fun with 9-5.

[ September 30, 2013, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted October 16, 2007 11:07 AM

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Now thats what I want, a Pathe Lido [Smile]

[Smile]

[Smile]

I will get one eventually [Cool]

[Cool]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 16, 2007 02:38 PM

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Thanks for that Lee. What is that camera stock in the box?
I could not agree more about the fascination of 9.5mm. As you say, some of the equipment is pretty basic, but that's half the fun of it, keeping those simple little projectors alive and running. Like a lot of people, I started out in 9.5mm, and abandoned it for the joy of 8mm Kodachrome. I have only returned to the guage in the last few years, and find it now holds great interest. There is something totally magical about hand cranking a film thru a Pathe Baby onto a little dimmly lit screen. I am amazed at the print quality of some of the Pathescope releases from 50 or more years ago, and I would love to get into 9.5mm optical sound.
Makes you realize that 9.5mm was perhaps the best amateur film guage after all, too bad Pathescope did not do a better job of keeping it to the forefront in the face of the 8mm challenge.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted October 17, 2007 08:55 AM

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Hi Paul.
The film stock is the Photoworld Daylight 9.5mm film available in 50ASA and he also does 100ASA which probably the 50 and processed at 100. You can buy it from Photoworld 7A Victoria Street, LLANDUDNO LL30 1LQ UK. Telephone: 01492 871818

It looks very similar to Velvia on screen and when my “Truth is Stranger than fiction” film was show at the festival many asked if it was indeed Velvia camera film. For all I know it may be but in the Photoworld box. The stock comes with a good long date and include postage to you, processing and return posting for a little over £14.00 for 50ft. Roy is also selling charger reloads instead of 50ft spools and I have been very happy with the results indeed.

Using the Lido Classic camera is fine and I love the results I get from it using in conjunction with a Western light meter, tripod and my wife who shouts the numbers.

Any 9.5mm film maker can enter a film in the International Film Competition which takes place around the world each year. My friend told me the next one is in Germany which we are going to try and get to if I am not filming here for work. Will however post all details on the 9-5 forum as soon as I hear anything and also a booking form for those wishing to stay over as the Festival is over a few days including trips etc.

Considering 9.5 is regarded as something of a forgotten gauge in truth it is still very active amongst collectors and a handful of 9.5mm film makers.

Within our region we have a film group and meet once a month just for 9.5 showing and chat. These we rotate around members houses (my turn next in November) and they start about 4PM with a short film show, food & drink and then a complete programme of 9.5mm films. This time I will be showing part of Napoleon on 9.5mm notched film and a selection of 9-5 sound films. Often I stick to a theme and as we have just returned from Paris we are going all French.

Always a good crowd of friendly cine fans and a very light hearted night full of fun.

Val & I Foster disabled Children part time so as other carers and parents can have a rest for a few hours and these kids love the old cartoons, Popeye in Dizzy Divers rating the highest. I really do think it is great to show the vintage films you know, and if the producers of them were still around I am sure they would have a smile for us.

9.5 is sheer joy..

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2007 04:40 AM

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Lee, What film stocks are available these days and where do you buy them from. Is eBay the place to go for cameras and who does the processing.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted October 18, 2007 04:08 PM

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Hello Kevin.
I would think twice before buying a 9-5 camera on ebay unless you know or feel the seller is OK. I myself have never been keen on charger loading cameras as all too often they jam. Hold out for a Lido which will take 50ft spools of film and do give smart results I have found. As with all things the lens is important and they came with a choice of two lenses in the main, one fixed focus and one focusable, the latter being only slightly better. The cream of cameras is the Pathe WEBO which takes 100ft of film, and I have a friend who has one of these giving superb results.

The details of film are listed above my friend and Roy’s stuff is very good indeed. Mostly people use Fuji Velvia and Grahame Newnham has it on his sight. It does work out more expensive that Photoworlds but it is certainly comparable in quality. You will need to spice films using tape however.

Here is Grahame’s site in case you have not had a look as yet: www.pathefilm.freeserve.co.uk/

I do have a CIR 9-5 tape splicer which I only got hold of a couple of years ago myself due to the hefty cost, they do a very nice job though.

Heartily recommend Roy’s 9.5mm film and it is super value. If you find a camera try some of his first and I don’t think you will be disappointed.

Best wishes
Lee.

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted October 19, 2007 07:26 AM

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Lee

Didnt Beauleu (is that how you spell it) make a very nice 9.5 camera. I thought I saw one once.

Graham S

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Antoine Orsero
Master Film Handler

Posts: 374
From: marseille france
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 06, 2007 01:51 PM

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http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230188898423&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

It would seem that this projector is not duplex but normal for the 9,5mm! It does not have two les! What do you think about it?

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Tony

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 06, 2007 05:01 PM

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.

[ September 30, 2013, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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