8mm Forum: 9.5 mm Black-and-White Stock

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Topic: 9.5 mm Black-and-White Stock

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 21, 2015 11:13 AM

Welcome to this forum Edward and thank you for this wondeful project. Do you know who could process 9.5 black and white films on 30 m spools ? The Dutch lab that can process 9.5 cannot handle longer lenghts than 15 m.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 21, 2015 12:23 PM

A very interesting project for all ninefivers: have a cut of rows of Kodak 5363 in 9.5mm is an event, I think there's never been a 9,5mm film with an high contrast of 5363 (see Kodak 7363 to get an idea close to the type of film).
We must solve the problems of motor and cut!

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted November 22, 2015 07:28 AM

Processing 9.5 in lengths of 30 meters.Feasible.But another project is involved.current 15 meter limit suggests the use of the Lomo x2 15 meter tank-logical in the light of the very small volumes of 9.5 used today [the Lomo tank is very adaptable]
Lomo made a "professional" tank taking 30meters of 16mm film using 1.2 liters of chemistry [very economical].These are now rare & expensive.A london based film school recently paid £400 for one.I have seen it.It probably could be adapted to take 30 meters of 9.5.The film school will not do this as they use 16mm.
It needs a 9.5 member to look out for such a tank,adapt it,& offer a service.
Continous processing machines are uneconomical in the 9.5 context or indeed in any film based context.Nano Lab Australia use deep multi spiral tanks that take as much or as little chemistry as required.
The Doran wind/rewind tank could ,without too much difficulty,be adapted for 30 meters 9.5 use but I have found results with this tank to be variable.1 liter of chemistry can process x1 35mm 30 meter load-ditto 16mm-ditto super8.Some years ago someone automated one of these ultra economical tanks & published the results in "International Movie Making" magazine.I have not seen the article, unfortunately,so do not have details.
All these problems can be solved.I do feel that the energy & vitality of 9.5 cinematographers which was, at one time considerable,has now dissipated.
Most of my work uses regular 8mm,sometimes 16mm,& occasionally 35mm.I never really got started with 9.5 as post production facilities for the gauge were slim from the late 1980s onwards.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 22, 2015 10:18 AM

One step after another. If 30 meters spools become available I guess a solution could be found to process them (maybe Color City could do that job ?).

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 22, 2015 10:49 AM

Dom, members of the various clubs 9.5mm you know might be interested to project? I know that there are also people who shot in 9.5mm, in addition to collecting the format.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 22, 2015 11:26 AM

I can spread the news via the French magazine when things are ready :-) I guess the British Group will do the same (bu they seem to read also this forum ;-)

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 22, 2015 01:05 PM

We hope they are interested!
I do not think you and me are the only users of unexposed 9.5mm film in the world, haha! [Big Grin]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 22, 2015 04:37 PM

I sent an e-mail to Mr Le Rohellec (I mentionned in a preeceding message in this thread)), the French gentleman who wanted to contact a lab to see if it was viable to bring back black and hite stock on the market (but at that time, colour stock was still available). He has just answered me, showing his interest. He wants to make an annoucement in the French 9.5 magazine as soon as détails are available. We're indeed not the only ones shooting in 9,5 ;-) Color City sells films in several countries (including Spain and Portugal). Of course, we're not a million but we're not alone :-)

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 23, 2015 03:31 AM

Well, a good number of interested users, as I supposed. Nice! [Smile]

Yes, Color City sells 9.5mm outside France, it seems to me even outside Europe.

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted November 23, 2015 05:49 AM

If there is sufficient interest I would be prepared to make a slitter to partner my pathe perforator & offer a processing service for 30 meter 9.5mm lengths of 5363 using my Doran tank.Both negative & reversal processing could be taken on.This would not be a fast turn around service as my film drier only takes 16mm film [Jobo film drier] so the processed film would have to be allowed to air dry.
Someone would need to provide empty camera spools for loading.I understand that Andek Filmotechnik use a sprocketless continous processing machine so 30 meter lengths of 9.5mm film should present no difficulty here.Might be worth a try.Quality is gerenally high from this lab.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 23, 2015 09:43 AM

Grahame Newnham's web-site offers 9.5mm camera spools for sale.
http://www.pathefilm.uk/lists/filmlista.htm

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Maurice

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 25, 2015 02:54 AM

I, unfortunately, not have a camera spool, beacause I use only 9 meter "cartridges" for small Ercsam Camex 9.5mm camera, but if Grahame has on offer is a good thing.

I'm sure that in the French club there are several people interested in the project. [Smile]

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted November 26, 2015 05:27 AM

Here's the deal for 9.5mm black & white film.I am taking orders for film now.[do not send me money until the film is ready for delivery].All orders to be placed between now & 25/1/2016.If I have received no orders for film by 25/1/2016 I will not start work on this project.
Prices & packings [to start with-prices hold good for 2016]
9 meter charger reloads........£7.00
15 meter loads [without spool].£10.00
15 meter loads on 15 meter camera spools & cans £12.50
Postage & packing at cost depending upon destination/order size & weight
Target delivery date::late 2016 [no guarantee is offered here-spool supply dependent upon availability-there are still things that can go wrong]
Processing charges::£5.00 for 9 meter & 15 meter lengths.Both negative & reversal processing undertaken for the same price.
5363 b/w film can be processed/loaded under a red darkroom safelight.This is my most used film stock for motion picture [8mm] & b/w 35mm slides.I think very highly of the results.
Orwo UN54 b/w reversal/negative film & Orwo DP3 are also possibilities as I have large supplies of these stocks.Also Orwo DN2.Exposure index for UN54 is 100 iso.Orwo DP3 10-15 iso panchromatic. DN2 5 iso panchromatic.All iso figures refer to reversal processing.No prices for these extra films as yet.
If you do not wish to load your own chargers you can send them to me for loading/unloading.Supplies of chargers & spools are limited so it is important to keep these within the 9.5 community.
My production process lends itself to very short production runs.For example members of the Canadian pan 8 association order
regular 8mm film from me made from inexpensive 35mm short ends & recans slit & perforated to 8mm [usually colour negative film].The results are then digitized [on rare occasions film itself is projected ]
The 9.5mm production process can piggy back off my usual 8mm production method so special orders can be accomodated here too.I will not work with polyester based film as this quickly wears blades punches & dies.Preservation of the production machinery is the top priority here.

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 26, 2015 06:31 AM

A great choice, Edward, congratulations!
I want to take the various possibilities in 9 meters, but because I want to buy also Regular 8 I write in email right now.

I'm the first ninefivers to buy? Go, people! [Smile]

EDIT:

Kodak 5363 it's B/W 10-15 Asa?
Orwo DP3 it's B/W 10-15 Asa?
Orwo DN2 it's B/W 5 Asa? (5!)
Orwo UN54 it's B/W 100 Asa?

ALL are avaible with reversal or negative processing?
Negative processing with positive film projection (not in digital)?

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted November 26, 2015 09:55 AM

When reversal processed at Andek filmtechnik I have found the following exposure indices to be useful.
7363/5363 10asa old type
7363/5363 most recent batch sold to me by Kodak 5asa
Orwo DP3 15asa
Orwo DN2 5asa
When reversal processed with my own equipment the 7363/5363 stays at 5asa .Orwo DP3 drops to 10asa.I have no data for DN2 having not processed it at home.Published data for UN54 is 100asa reversal.
Exposure ratings much less critical for negative processing.Commercial continous processing machines always produce the best results,especially on drying & hypo clearing stages.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 26, 2015 11:54 AM

I wish to order 5 15 meter loads of 100 asa reversal stock.
The French magazine has been isued very recently so I don't think there will be another one before 25/01. I passed although the information to some people.

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Dominique

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted November 27, 2015 05:26 AM

Unfortunately my 100asa Orwo UN54 is on 16mm rolls & I can not use this with my 35mm 9.5 perforator.I know of someone who has unperforated 35mm Orwo UN54 but it is a 300meter roll & I don't know if he'll sell it to me & ,if he does,at what price.Unperforated 35mm UN54 does not suit my current production method for 8mm film.
Only orders for the 5363 can be accepted now.Other stocks are future possibilities .[DN2/DP3 are available in my fridge but I want to start with a red safe light film so that I can see what is going on & check for any problems with newly commissioned machinery.]

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 27, 2015 05:50 AM

Ok, I change my order. [Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 28, 2015 07:09 PM

So do I

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Dominique

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 04, 2016 12:30 PM

Edward, I got a message from Mr Le Rohellec who made a Survey last year about black an white stock. He tried to register on this forum but didn't succeed. So he asked me to let you know that 4 or 5 ninefivers answered that they would buy around 20 30 meter spools yearly. Mr Le Rohellec has moved recently so he has still documents packed but as soon as they come back at light he will contact people who were interested.

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Dominique

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted January 12, 2016 12:14 PM

Thank you Dominique for your message reference Mr Rohellec.The computer software is very case sensitive when registering on this forum.Your information is encouraging.It does surprise me with this level of interest that supplies of b/w 9.5mm film is not already available from the usual sources.Whilst other people have already offered to me 9.5 slitters unfortunately said machinery needs to be matched to my perforator & to the fact that I'm using already perforated 35mm film.This means that I still need to make a slitter matched to my purposes.
I would be pleased to supply the 9.5mm market you indicate but I don't want to put in money & effort only to suddenly find that someone else jumps in & leaves me high & dry.

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 12, 2016 05:49 PM

Best of 9,5mm format it's that is joining a considerable size of the frame to a aesthetics of cameras, projectors and various accessories very beautiful, number of users of the forum and interested clubs there are over expectations. Maybe a little 'less are factive users of cameras with film, of course, a calculation it could be 50% of all.
A French film club 9.5mm told me that they are ONLY filmmakers and not collectors, in the UK there is the movement you know, me and Dominique buy with regularity color film reels in 9m and 30 of form Color City.
We are not many, but for a format so old so much. I noticed it also for the market of 9,5mm splicers and rare editor viewers, in eBay will sell enough, a sign that there are people who assembles films in this format. [Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted May 08, 2016 08:05 AM

Any news ?

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Dominique

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Edward Nowill
Junior
Posts: 12
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted July 06, 2016 05:50 PM

Sorry,the slitter has been built but it is still not working properly
[in its 8mm form].Knowledge gained here can be applied to the 9.5mm unit.As usual ,with any prototype,the production schedule is slipping.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 01, 2016 06:21 PM

Thank you for the update. I got recently two requests about this project so I could answer properly. I keep my fingers crossed.

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Dominique

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