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Author Topic: Problem with Notched film joining
Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 20, 2012 01:09 AM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,
I am trying to join my notched films together using my cement joiner, but it won't do the job! I even tried using super-glue and that wouldn't hold either!
All my normal titled 9.5mm films join well.
What's going on? is the film on Notched titles a different type? It's got me stuck on how to join up lots of the Notched titles.

What's the story guys????

Cheers,
Clinton

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted April 20, 2012 08:40 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Clinton,I don't use 9.5,but your problem fascinated me.
I would assume that 9.5 is acetate base,the thing that gives me
cause,is that Superglue won't adhere.Now way back in the early
'80's when the second 400' reel of "Star Wars" became available
it was released on polyestar stock which meant that ordinary
acetate solvent wouldn't work,not having a tape splicer at the time
I resorted to using Superglue.Both edges of the film must be
scrubbed on your cement splicer and any debris blown away,the tiniest amount applied,the best method is to use a
sewing needle with the end of the eye nipped off and that
should deposit enough of the adhesive to the area,ensure the
area is wet then clamp the jaws together and leave for a couple of minutes.The film should be well and truly fast.You might
need to tidy any excess from around the edges,but I think
you'll find it should last.The splices I made on the "Star Wars"
compilation have still held up to this day.Always make sure that
the edges are clean and free from grease etc.I hope this has
been of some help, good luck and keep us informed.

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 20, 2012 05:05 PM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Hugh,
A film friend of mine suggested the following-
"I understand that some 9.5 (and other sizes) film has a coating on both sides so you need to carefully scrape both sides for a good cement splice."
And he might be right , I decided to give the project a few days off [Smile] and will see if he is correct.

Notched film I presume would have to be tough as they are paused for the title eh?

Clinton

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted April 20, 2012 05:38 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Clinton,when you come to splice your film,I'm assuming that
you are using a cement splicer,both films to be spliced are in
the splicer and the end of both pieces of film must be scraped
with the scrapers on your splicer,not too much,just enough to
remove the emulsion on one side and to rough up the base side
on the other piece,usually then film cement would be applied
or a touch of superglue,with film cement the trick is to use just
the correct amount,too little means the splice will part and too
much means the splice will warp or bend.Try it on a piece of scrap film until you feel confident to do it on your precious
movie.Best of British.(luck that is)

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 20, 2012 08:17 PM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah I have done heaps of this stuff but it is only the Notched title films that recently got me stuck!
Will do it again with lots of thought.
Cheers,
Clinton

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 22, 2012 10:38 PM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well it appears these films are made of the poly-type film so I had to use tape to jon them....always learning something everyday [Smile]

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 2413
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted April 23, 2012 06:18 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Clinton. I wonder if you have someone near you with a 9.5 tape splicer who could help out?

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 Xenon 'The Northern Light'

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 24, 2012 06:43 AM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Lee,

I managed using a combination of different tape splicers - all done and I learnt something new.....

Cheers all

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1418
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted April 29, 2012 03:36 PM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Clinton, I have a very hard time thinking that your notched films are made of polyester, because I am pretty sure they did not have that film stock in the 1930's. Every notched film I have ever seen has been diacetate film which would accept cement. Are you sure it is not splicing leader to the film that is the problem? Because the leader would probably be estar. You of course know that you will need to scrape all of the emulsion away or else it won't join, and it is possible that the film might be curling on the edges that is preventing the film making a secure contact for the cement to cure properly.....The best advice for splicing 9.5 is of course using tape because knowing that there will never be any more made means you don't really want to lose any of it...

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted April 30, 2012 05:54 PM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Dino,
I think it may be a combination of some of those thoughts, the cement did hold the joins in some cases and I used a tape joiner for the others with mixed results, only because I don't have a actual 9.5mm joiner machine, I had to do it using a combination of different tape splicers I have.
Oh and they were really curely at the end of the films!

The results were FAIRLY good. I will keep an eye-out for a 9.5mm tape joiner to redo the joins but I think they will be VERY rare eh!

It is deffinately a case of the right tools will do the right job [Smile]

Cheers,
Clinton in New Zealand

P.S. Yeah these films are rare so I always save as much of the film as possible even if the titles are missing etc.
And even if the films are worn or scratched it doesn't worry me at all as I think that is the charm of this GREAT hobby! [Big Grin]

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted July 28, 2012 08:01 AM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,
well i was still having problems joining these notched films with good results,but this week i finally have it sussed!
As i don't have a 9.5mm tapejoiner i used my cement-type joiner to get the film cut with the exact space between the perfs and then used my 16mm tape to join them, and then using a very small screwdriver heated to just make the correct new perf and it works perfectly with no pic jump etc.
I my case it paid for me to experiment and workout what i needed to do to allow me to work with what i have...........

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Ken Finch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 29, 2012 03:17 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Clinton, re joining notched title films. The tape splicer is the answer to these. The only 9.5mm tape splicer I know of is the one made by CIR and it is quite expensive and few and far between. Many years ago I had the difficult job of joining about 900ft of 9.5mm home movies shot in the 1920s which had to be removed from the little 30ft metal cassettes. It was like trying to join dozens of watch springs together and of course also had lateral curvature. This was pre tape splicing. The base of all these earlier films were diacetate. I found that some of the more recent film cements are formulated for tri acetate and do not always seem to work so well with diacetate.
Ken Finch.

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Clinton Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 194
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010


 - posted July 30, 2012 06:59 AM      Profile for Clinton Hunt   Email Clinton Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers for that info Ken........i knew they were a diff type of film and there was a reason i was having trouble with some notched films....
Ta,
Clinton

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