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» 8mm Forum   » 9.5mm Forum   » Future of 9.5 filmstock (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Future of 9.5 filmstock
Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 694
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 15, 2019 05:37 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was a good price, considering that it was a color film, in the last a good Velvia!

Could think of this, for the B / W: Fomapan R100 16mm 30.5m (about 36 euros) + cutting (? euros) + development (price variable, for Fomapan there are also the development kits).
How much would it be? I could not say...

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Rodney Bourke
Film Handler

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From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted February 19, 2019 06:23 PM      Profile for Rodney Bourke   Email Rodney Bourke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Dominique your not to far from Color City France, are you able to visit and make contact with them, so you can Buy there 35mm to 9.5 perforating machine?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 20, 2019 04:23 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Rodney. It's not a problem for me to contact Color City or to visit them (I already went there several times) but I'm not sure I understand your request. Color City is looking for unperfored 35 mm reversal colour filmstock, they haven't any at the moment. They are still looking, the last time (three weeks ago) I had news, they were trying a German source but I don't know if that's progressing. Kodak answered an e-mail regarding filmstock from a member of the French club but, to consider manufacturing 35 mm again, they need a (I quote [Smile] "significant volume to justify any development and testing expense". Needless to say, the 9.5 market is far away to be big, so I'm afraid Kodak will not be able to help us if only the 9.5 world needs 35 mm film.

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Dominique

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Simon Wyss
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: Äsch, Switzerland
Registered: Apr 2009


 - posted February 20, 2019 11:02 AM      Profile for Simon Wyss   Email Simon Wyss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I may suggest something, could you try to convince them to start the business again with black-and-white stocks. I am sure they can buy Fomapan R as unperforated 35mm, that’s an acetate base stock that will sell. All ORWO films can be had unperforated, so one or two negative stocks such as UN 54, N 74, and print film, PF 2 plus, would be attractive to Ninefivers, too. If the machine can handle polyester base films, a number of microfilm and microfilm duplicating stocks become accessible. These are generally not perforated.

I think the availability of any raw stock in 9,5 is more important than that of a -chrome film. In fact, Ninefive deserves microfilms for duplication work more than others because there are so many reduction prints around, prints of films lost in the original format. As a lab manager I am waiting for microfilms in 9,5. I want to offer archival techniques.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 20, 2019 11:42 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Simon. Trouble is that black and white films can legally not been process in France, so the profit from reperforing only will be close to zero. Processing black and white films is a problem since only one lab does it but only up to 15 mt spools.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted February 20, 2019 05:25 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed, it's difficult for a non-seller calculate the profit margin.
We should try to do a survey: how much would cost to the laboratory a 35mm Orwo reversal or Fomapan R100 35mm not perforated for get three 9.5mm strips, and how much we could spend our buyers. Dom reminds that 30 meters of Velvia 9.5 process paid cost about 65 euros. Keeping in mind the lab would not do the process, which amounted at CC, I remember, about 15 euros, but the film was in color (and VELVIA!), we deduct certain euro... 25 less? Remain? 40 euros? I, for a 9.5m, would spend them.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 20, 2019 05:35 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, your price is, sadly, optimistic since both (colour) filmstock and chemicals have increased. Look at the price of the new Kodak cartriges (not process paid). I'm affaid we must be prepared for higher prices if 9.5 colour filmstock becomes available again (which I hope).

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted February 20, 2019 05:47 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's true Dom, maybe it's an optimistic price.

But I can think about other calculations that could be useful: CC did not offer the reels (all have reels, for 9.5mm are the same of the 16mm, in the case of film cameras with magazines does not need reel), some small cost less; CC had some beautiful printed boxes (I still have lots of them), but I know we would be willing to have the film without them; now that I think, I bought 8,20mt x 3, then less than 30mt. Maybe, for this, it could sell 25m (I don't consider the 15mt lenght because I think it's very rare even in 9.5m), users of 30mt machines could be content.
The new Ekatchrome Super8, color + 15mt + cost of the cartridge, costs an average of 60 euros. Would we be willing to spend it for 9.5mm b / w?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 20, 2019 06:22 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, the spools is one of the reasons why it's not viable for a company to reperfor films to 9.5 without process them. Unlike what you assumed, Color City sold the 15 mt and 30 mt (their main sales) on camera spools (and then sent the process films on 15 mt or 30 mt projector spools). That's possible if the camera spools come back to the lab, otherwise you end out of those spools. Of course, I cannot speak for Color City but I undersand the difficulties they're facing. Remember that black and white film is available from the Spanish club (but still no processing service for 30 mt lenght, which is problematic).

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted February 21, 2019 05:15 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My hypotheses are a bit vague, true.
I didn't remember that the 15m and 30m formats were shipped with spools, I only remembered 8.20, which had only a small core. I would not have said that 15mm was very sold.
Of the projector reels I remembered, but precisely after process.

Excuse me, I don't remember the point of the Spanish club: they can currently have all the measures of b/w cut in 9.5mm but can not sell it because they can't yet provide the development service?

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 21, 2019 05:42 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
8,20 mt lengths were sold without spool because they were intended for cartridges cameras owners. Color City also sold (but not from their Internet site, I don't know why) 14 mt lengts, also without spools for other kind of cartridges.

The Spanish club may still have some black and white stock left (I know someone bought two spools recently) but they are no longer promoting it (neither am I) since the lab that was supposed to offer the process service seems not hurry to modify their machine. Of course, there is still process available in The Netherlands for lenghts up to 15 mt but I think the Spanish ninefivers were blanking on a lab in Spain. I will probably have more informations at the next festival in Calella.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted February 21, 2019 01:01 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, right, 14mt for certain magazine, true, Dom.

As for Color City, at this point, it would be better to sell the machine for cut. I wonder if there would be any interested buyers...

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 21, 2019 02:14 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cutting machines used by Color City belong to the club. They are heavy and take space, so not easy to find a solution to keep them.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
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 - posted February 23, 2019 02:00 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We hope for a happy ending, my friend.
9.5mm is a very nice format, it's a shame not use it anymore. I think the French should try to reassess it also in terms of virgin stock film, it's their national heritage.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 23, 2019 04:37 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Believe me, Luigi, the French club is trying but without 35 mm stock, nothing is possible. And 35 mm is our World heritage we're loosing...

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 23, 2019 07:32 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More than the club, which I'm sure trying everything, I was referring to the whole of France and its wonderful invention of 9.5mm. It would absolutely be to save in all forms!

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Simon Wyss
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From: Äsch, Switzerland
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 - posted February 24, 2019 03:00 AM      Profile for Simon Wyss   Email Simon Wyss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Trouble is that black and white films can legally not been process in France
Dominique, that is not true. The French law forbids to dispose of chemicals and waste into the sewage, all baths must be recycled. A poor excuse of Color-City. Tell them that there is a need for cheap black-and-white film in the 9.5 mm format. I should buy 1,000 feet of simple positive at once (300 metres), preferably ORWO PF 2 plus.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 24, 2019 03:41 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Simon. That was what I always heard from Color City and from other French people. I will ask again.

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Dominique

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Simon Wyss
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From: Äsch, Switzerland
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 - posted February 25, 2019 09:56 AM      Profile for Simon Wyss   Email Simon Wyss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To use chemicals in my Basel laboratory I had to attend a poison course as it was called then and pass an exam taken by the state. Then I was given a written permission and a number that I had to pass to every supplier but basically I was free to buy and use every substance. My lab for black-and-white film was open November, 1999 to July, 2008. Of course, that is long gone and laws have changed since then. There is number of labs in France that do black and white film treatment. I don’t understand Color-City.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 25, 2019 11:19 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know any French lab that process reversal black and white cinefilmstock otherwise I'm sure it would have been contacted. Maybe there has been a misunderstanding with or from Color City. When I have the opportunity, I ask again.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
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From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 26, 2019 04:59 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I took a tour on French lab sites, it seems that some who were developing b/w now don't do it anymore.
Dom, I didn't remember the machine was of the club, true...
Simon, but you could be a reference point for process 9.5mm? I have not understood well if you have the means to do it. Would you do it for "amateur" users?

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted February 27, 2019 05:35 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Working in media for oh a very long time I need perfection. Regretfully Roys Reels as we called them didn't come an where near. Try and 2K scan it and you will see the sprocket holes are all over the place. What we need is a professional 9.5mm film Base.

We shot some frozen 9.5 B&W a few years ago and registration was perfect.9-5 is a wonderful format and second best will not do.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 28, 2019 01:17 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mister Otte, in Germany, achieves perfect reperforing. Sadly, he cannot, as an amateur, make large amounts of films.

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Dominique

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Simon Wyss
Film Handler

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From: Äsch, Switzerland
Registered: Apr 2009


 - posted February 28, 2019 11:48 AM      Profile for Simon Wyss   Email Simon Wyss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My specialty is manual treatment of films in spiral reels and in large open trays in the dark. Closed tanks are fine for onesies and twosies but technically nothing that I could stand by.

Hand development is so much better than machine development, I can enumerate a handful of points. The most important advantage is best evenness across or along portions that go into the baths at one blow. The irregular moves one can do with the reel account for perfect constancy.

I have reels that take 100 feet (30 m) of 9.5mm film. Basically I can set up baths after any formula plus C-41 and E-6. The question of feasability has to do with the mileage. Filmers have become picky to the extent that a commercial lab cannot survive. I have only little experience with Ninefivers as they were the rarest among the rare but I fear that gratitude is not to be expected even if fantastic microfilms were made available and processed. I have lived such a fiasco with Gigabitfilm which was a 16mm microfilm together with specially adapted chemistry.

Amateur filmers want colour stocks, they want back Kodachrome. I do understand them all, to stop Kodachrome was a big mistake of Kodak. Kodachrome was the product of the Eastman-Kodak Company. Now with Ektachrome back up Kodak does not like the idea of offering it in 16mm. Unbelievable.

There must be several dozen, if not a few hundred active filmers for endeavours in this format. I don’t hear their voice. Clubs should make omnibus orders.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted February 28, 2019 01:26 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no doubt that the 9.5 market is small and cannot, alone, make a lab live. It has to be regarded as an extra. Simon, out of topic but Kodak has announced Ektachrome in 16 mm. Probably coming soon.

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Dominique

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