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Topic: Fade

Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 05:44 AM

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Chaps,
This may well have cropped up before on the forum so forgive me. I was intrigued by Trevor's recent film sale of B/W's where he mentioned that there was a degree of fade.
Fade with colour prints is noticeable but I was curious about how fade affects B/W films, how you notice it, what causes it and if the fade progresses with time or further exposure to light etc.

Tony

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Tony

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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003

posted September 02, 2004 06:16 AM

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Well I have product in 16mm and Std8 and very early S8 and if fade is a problem then its something that you must be able to only measure with electronic test equipment,as all mine look sparkling when screened.
Everything wears out and indeed films do fade,I personally dont think people are going to go into a blind panic over this one,whats more I feel the British Film Institute would agree as their archive is phenominal and the product committed to DVD or whatever for study and physical wear prevention.Bet they wont be around in a hundred years time!(The DVDs not the archive!!)

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Standard8 rules!!

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 07:23 AM

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I've never heard of a B&W print fading. I've got many prints in my collection that are 50-70 years old. None of them look even remotely faded... Maybe if a film wasn't processed properly?

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David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted September 02, 2004 07:49 AM

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I have never really witnessed any fading in a black and white film. I have, unfortunately, witnessed the dreaded vinegar syndrome due to improper processing. I lost one of my most favorite films, a 16mm amber print made in the early 1930's of a William S. Hart 2 reeler. In time the print became unprojectable and it continued into a severe warpage that was hard to believe. I had tried many things to stop the vinegar syndrome, but to no avail. Even when I tossed it out, you could hold the film up to a light and see the beautiful sharp image from a film made 90 years ago. Bummer...

David M. Leugers

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Live Free or Die

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 10:26 AM

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I suppose it could be a B&W film printed on pre-LPP Eastman color stock. If the green's and blue's are disappearing, the black's will turn red. Sounds terrible....

- Rob (a big fan of nice B&W cinematography)

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted September 02, 2004 11:19 AM

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Hi I don`t think with Trevors mention of fade thats what it is as such.
Its just that he is such a good decent chap and they are probaly not absolutely A1 print wise, odd light face etc but I`d think probaly pretty damn good going by Dealings with Trevor and most people omit much in the way of proper description but trev goes the other way and I`m sure they will be much better than his ad looks.
Much of the cruddy std 8 and super 8 stuff does have a look as if its faded sort of, just the naff origional printing or material etc.
Best Mark.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 11:38 AM

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Mark,

I really should have pointed that out in the opening post-I fully agree with what you have said re Trevor-he is one of the best chaps I have dealt with in my short cine career and as you say his descriptions tend to be very cautous indeed.

It was really just the use of the word that caught my attention.

I should also mention that I raise it only as a point of interest and I am certainly not in a state of panic!

Thanks for your replies

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Tony

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Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 01:48 PM

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Welcome home Tony, I trust Spain was to your liking and my bottle of plonk travelled well. [Razz]

[Razz]

The forum has been noticably quiet in your absence.
Now how about one of your engaging topics to get it all going again.
Regards
A very sober
Ian [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted September 02, 2004 02:09 PM

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Hi Tony Spain eh!!!!!! I went to safeway recently for a trip, it was pretty exciting mind as they had changed to morrisons all of a sudden like.
On the Trev bit no worries I was just rambling away as usual.
Best Mark.

How much do you charge for two weeks inclusive in your shed Ian by the way????????

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Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 02:33 PM

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Full board or bed and breakfast .....!!

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 02:59 PM

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How many beds and whats for breakfast Ian!! [Wink]

[Wink]

Tony can you contact me please. [Frown]

[Frown]

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 03:03 PM

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You wouldn't get much sleep in Ians shed [large West London Cine Storage Facility] what with the air conditioning units rumbling away and the security guards pacing up and down the corridors of racked and catalogued films. [Razz]

[Razz]

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003

posted September 02, 2004 05:26 PM

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...not to mention the 747's Lol! Only kidding Ian!! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

How's the Yank? (Not to offend our friends across the 'pond' I'm referring to a large car!) [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

.
Rick

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2004 05:35 PM

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Well I will put my Ilford Films hat back on [Wink]

[Wink]

True black and white film is made with silver halide which when exposed and then processed leaves an image made up of solid silver.
In fact it is possible to extract the silver back of the film before disposal as silver is obviously worth money.
In light of this (no pun intended) it is not very likely for the image to fade. What can happen over a period of years is oxidisation of the silver image which will show up as a reflective look to the silver image or even to the point where it can turn milky looking or of course sepia but these tend to only happen these days if the fixing of the silver image was badly done or very poor storage.
So yes a possible change in colour but not a fade situation.
If it was indeed printed on colour stock then it will of course be likely to fade or change colour and while we are on this topic lets not forget that all normal substantive tripak colour coupler type colour film will fade eventually even LPP. LPP stands for "low fade" not "no fade" even the Agfa and Fuji stocks will eventually fade. What Ilford and no doubt other manufactures did was to try and make film where the 3 dye layers faded at the same rate so that the film got lighter over the years instead of changing colour. The eye is far more tollerant to a density shift comparred to a colour shift.
I rest my case [Wink]

[Wink]

Kev.
Now where's my Ilford Manual of Photograhy gone!!!

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 03, 2004 10:54 AM

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Hello Uncle Ian,

Sorry to hear you have been unwell (how did you find sober?)-don't worry I have a bottle of Spanish sunshine (Gran Reserva no less) for you here. Just hope we meet soon before it goes off and has to be drunk....

Looking forward to seeing the new highly organised and tidy shed now that the illegal immigrants have left!

Tony

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Tony

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003

posted September 04, 2004 05:20 AM

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Hi Ian,
Your shed sound fascinating, can't wait to view this hi tech storage facility of yours. Hope to visit soon with the Lightwater gang. hopefully sooner than later.

Chris.

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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