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Author
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Topic: Super 8 sound quality and the 'need' for external amplifiers
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Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted January 20, 2006 04:44 PM
Here's a mildly 'challenging' post that some might like to comment on.
I've always been aware that in Super 8 collecting circles it's generally said that in order to get the best possible sound quality, you 'have' to use a good external amplifier. Personally, though, I've never been bothered to use one. I suppose it's partly convenience as I don't have a permanent set up, but the fact is that is IF a film has a good quality sound track, I'm perfectly happy with the sound I get from my GS1200 (through one or two external speakers of course). After all, 8mm sound is not exactly hi-fi, whatever you put it through.
Would anyone agree or, alternatively, is there a good case for saying that the quality of Elmo amplifiers is poor in comparison to what can be used instead?
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Adrian Winchester
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 20, 2006 06:56 PM
The speakers in the GS1200 are simply not big enough to give the best sound quality, plus of course they are facing away from the projectionist- not exactly an optimum arrangement, you want the speakers in front of the screen!. If you use large external speakers, such as the Elmo speakers that Kev uses, then you are probably getting close to the excellent sound quality which the GS is capable of. I like to go one step further, and feed the AUX out of the projector thru a 10 band stereo graphic equalizer and then on into my stereo amplifier and five room speakers. With the graphic equalizer you can notch out any remaining mains hum and high frequency hiss put out by the projector or film sound track, thus getting a noticeably 'cleaner' sound. Plus some graphic equalizers have a 'stereo expansion' button which can enhance the spatial effect of the stereo sound tracks.
Re-recording the existing magnetic sound tracks from DVD takes you to the highest level of S8 stripe sound quality, virtually indistinguishable from VHS HI-FI audio, if the stripe is good quality on both tracks. Sync-pulse to DVD is of course the ultimate, giving you DVD quality surround sound, but only a handful of dedicated S8 collectors are willing (or able) to go to this effort. But the biggest gain is simply using two external speakers in front of the screen.
It cannot be overemphasised how much excellent sound quality can boost the impact of super 8 films (anyone who has been to the BFCC can testify to that!)So anything you can do to get the best possible sound quality is going to enhance your S8 viewing experience no end.
While we're on the subject, the best sound I have ever heard on a super 8 projector comes from the Eumig S926/938/940 stereo projectors - really fantastically awesome! The GS is the brightest, but that Eumig sound, wow! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted January 23, 2006 12:03 PM
mmmm, dodgy ground for me but i also never use to have an external amp because i never had a permenant set, however,,,,
when i moved to my present address i had the ideal downstairs room, and low and behold, i had my own cinema, i was given a panasonic stereo amp and two wharfdale speakers. I have to say, the difference in playback is 100% improvement, not so much in quality but the added bass and the addition of the extra speaker, (all be it, twin mono), is tremendas and until you actualy put it in place and then during playback cut the balance on one side thats when you have the difference.
One can certainly live without it but if you can manage it the effort is well worth it.
Mind you, with my d i v o r c e going thru im not sure where my future films will be used. Always said, if it means the films or the bitch i choose the films. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 23, 2006 07:53 PM
I have my 1200HD machines set to Yamaha Pro Logic Decoder, with power amps by Carver and Onkyo. The Carver amps are 100 watts per channel, and the amps are used for L, C, R and subwoofer respectfully. There are 2 Carver amps. The Onkyo integrated amp is for the rear theater surrounds. My total sound power is 560 watts and barely crack 1 watt in the loudest of the Die Hard explosions or gun shots, yet the bass and overall sound is just incredible.
To make it easier, I've added Radio Shack audio switchboxes and they are used to represent the aux out mono and moni1&2 stereo signals coming from the machine. So when it comes to splicing mono shorts on the front of a stereo feature, no swapping cables I just press a button, much like the GS1200 has a built in switch for the same reason. Each machine has one of these boxes, and the output of each box goes to a third Radio Shack splitter which is used for sound changeover between machines via remote. The output of the third box goes to the 4th Radio Shack box which switches between CD music before the show and projector sound. From the 4th box it goes to the Pro Logic units. I also have a Prologic unit for the booth monitor alone, rated at 80 watts per channel.
I wouldn't have it any other way. It simply rules when running a show. Even though my description sounds complex, or even over kill. But for those reading this who might not understand, remember my setup inside the booth is the most involved and that makes it the easiest to run and is justified given the quality that I get from it. My sound system essentially mimics a pro theater Dolby "a" sound rack in a large 400 seat auditorium of a public cinema, yet is strong enough to be great in a basement with only 7 seats.
I only use the built in speaker when quickly previewing a new short for first time projection check before splicing the new short into a standard length program and/or part of my collection.
CG
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