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Topic: Cresclene - be careful!

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 31, 2006 03:57 AM

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A few days ago, I did several hours of work on a 16mm feature reel. This included making some new tape splices and restoring some damage along the edges. I then applied some Cresclene - which I don't normally use - but I have a bottle that I thought I'd may as well make use of.

Yestarday, I had to check something relating to the print, and I was shocked to discover the new splices are peeling at the edges and starting to come apart. I've never seen anything like this happen with any other treatment. The film is stored in a plastic can, so possibly this made it worse.

Of course, this is less likely to be a problem for 8mm collectors, but I thought it was still worth saying that if you are (eg) splicing reels together, I'd avoid letting the splice come into contact with Cresclene.

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Adrian Winchester

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 31, 2006 09:33 AM

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Adrian,

That is odd. Perhaps something to do with the particular adhesive used on these splices? I have used this on 16mm without a problem and on some v splicy film as well. They did change the composition of the solvent in the product and it became quite like parafin so I stopped using it because it seemed less effective to me and the audience kept dialling 999 on their mobiles [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[ March 31, 2006, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Tony Milman ]

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Tony

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted March 31, 2006 01:39 PM

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Hope this isnt an insulting question, but here goes anyway,
was the film treated with a cleaner remover prior to doing any new splicing? (nervous bloke this end, dont shout at me [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

)or do you mean that your existing splices started to come away?

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 31, 2006 02:46 PM

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I too have noticed this on more recent batches. My Wurker splices have gone slightly Opaque and also peeling up at the edges. Most film cleaners contain a solvent and most will attack tape splices.

Tony is right it does really smell like parafin and stinls the whole house out when in use and then when you get the heat from the projector on it......well thats something else. Other than these few points it's a good product [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 31, 2006 04:19 PM

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Whilst Creclene no doubt has it's good points, after hours of wasted effort, I certainly think it stinks in more ways than one at the moment! I didn't use a specific cleaner remover before applying tape, but I clean the area and wipe it with a tissue - which has always worked for me before.

In the circumstances, I can't see much incentive to use it instead of something like Filmrenew, which is also a lot cheaper, even if you are importing it to the UK.

I wish I wasn't on my last can of Thermofilm!

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 01, 2006 05:49 AM

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I`d go for filmgaurd a whole lot less toxic and available reasonably from the very nice Steve Osbourne in the US.
Best Mark.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted April 01, 2006 06:00 AM

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I've been using Filmguard on super 8 for the last 18 months (after running out of Thermofilm) and have to say I find it excellent (if used with the right moderation). As well as cleaning up the prints they run very smoothly and quietly through the projector.

Over the last few weeks I've been cleaning up and re-splicing my 16mm films and have to say I've had no problems with Filmguard (and some sections of film are VERY splicey!)

Films which were treated and then boxed up over a year ago look fine too.

You can get Filmguard in the UK from a company called Jackro. They deal with professional film supplies but seemed quite happy to sell me a single bottle. It is expensive from them as they only sell it in big bottles but it will see you through an awful lot of film!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 01, 2006 02:11 PM

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FG is sold in quart bottles, that's the only size. For an 8mm collector that should last quite an awful long time. It does not attack tape splices.

For those who have inquired about modifying a commercial Kelmar (or older model Christie) media film cleaner for automated use with FilmGuard, I finally found a picture. This picture below shows a 70mm cleaner modified to run 16mm film. The only difference to run 8mm would be the amount of washers you put in between the two flanges. (Yes the blue media is 35mm gauge. If anyone goes this route, contact me directly as I can supply monster sized rolls in 16mm width for virtually no cost.)

As the film is pulled over the main drive wheel, it is geared to the two takeup shafts which pull the media cleaning cloth constantly presenting a fresh piece of cleaning media to the film. It also puts an even and constant amount of tension on the film and by far does a better job at cleaning than by hand.

I see these on the used market for about $250-350 regularly and new ones are about $500. You only need to rig up your own mounting bracket like was done here.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 03, 2006 03:25 AM

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Brad, do you know what is going on with Film Guard? I had a chap contact me via our web site and put him onto Film Guard having read all about it on here. He then either couldn't get hold of any or got completely confused. I too am now confused as Rob has an almighty sized bottle of the stuff and yet it is only supposed to come in quart sized cans. So what's the latest?

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Andrew Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 784
From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
Registered: Jan 2006

posted April 24, 2006 11:22 AM

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hi everyone,where and how do you get filmguard in the uk?.andy.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 24, 2006 10:42 PM

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Hi Andrew
Be careful what you use on super8 films I reccomend contacting derann films as they can supply an excellent film cleaner and lubricant. Derann have been around a long time and I would highly reccomend them for your film needs.
Kind Regards
Graham [Smile]

[Smile]

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 25, 2006 02:35 AM

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Just ensure you test thorougly prior to using the Derann liquid film cleaner on acetate based stock as it is aimed purely at polyester material. Some have reported warping of acetate Super 8 films after using LFC.

I'd still really like to know the latest story on Film Guard. Brad... oh Brad... yoo hoo.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 25, 2006 09:25 AM

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Thats true John it can( D,LFC) quite regularly damage acetate, also if you do between the fingers you need to watch the pressure as its not greasy you can mark/scratch the film easily.
Best Mark.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 26, 2006 08:05 AM

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DLFC is based on isopropyl alcohol with a touch of silicon. I have seen some a couple of severe cases of warpage on B/W acetate stock. It looks like the isoprop dries the base out and seems to be worse if used in very warm conditions.
I have part one from the Mountain Full feature of King Kong which had been treated with DLFC and I have not been able to find anything which will reverse the damage. [Frown]

[Frown]

I havent seen this problem with any other treatment and can certainly say that Filmgaurd and FilmRenew are ok as is Phils Cresclean. I would just steer clear of DLFC on acetate stock. No problems with it on polyester.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 27, 2006 05:12 AM

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Yikes ! I did not relise that with DLFC will test it on some different types of scrap film over the weekend. thanks for that.
Graham. [Eek!]

[Eek!]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 28, 2006 09:26 AM

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Well I'm sure that Derann wont like me for having made those comments but as far as I'm concerned anything which may cause a problem to our precious films should be highlighted. As I said before it is OK with Poly based stock but be carefull with Acetate.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

posted April 28, 2006 11:53 AM

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Filmguard from Film-tech is, IMHO the best and only way to go, for a multitude of reasons.

Check out the threads, chaps from August 7th last year! Search Filmguard under 'search'.

The Cresclene sounds a bit dangerous to me.

Dave.

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Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Andrew Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 784
From: dundonald,belfast,co.antrim,northern ireland.
Registered: Jan 2006

posted May 03, 2006 12:01 PM

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is there anywhere in the uk that stocks filmguard?;and do they have a web site?.andy.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted May 03, 2006 01:29 PM

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Hi, Andrew.

Try www.jack-roe.demon.co.uk

Click on JACKRO QUALITY PRODUCTS.

From the top menu select PRODUCTS AND SERVICES.

From the catagory menu on the left select PROJECTION SUPPLIES.

Then click on VIEW ALL FILM HANDLING PAGES.

There about half way down is CFGUARD 32oz with sprayer. This is FILMGUARD in a bottle with a sprayer top which is very useful to control the amount you need.

No price listed. Think I payed in the region of £60 a couple of years ago. It might sound a lot but for the quantity you get it is about the same as any other film cleaner. Quality wise it is worth every penny and for super 8 use this will last you a very long time indeed!

Very, very pleasant people to deal with if you explain that you aren't a company, just a private film collector.

Brad, hope you concur with this.

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