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Author Topic: cresclean lubrication on new films
Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted May 23, 2006 07:32 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I recently bought a new feature from derann but I wanted to lubricate it first so I applied a small amount of cresclean from CHC. the film clattered through my GS1200 so I removed it and applied some more. This time when applying I could see the cresclean on the film as streaks. When projected it ran slightly quiter and the picture was fine (i.e. no blobs) but I still feel it needs more lubricant as it dosent run as quiet as I would like. Ho much cresclean should I use. Ive not used it much before. Do I just need to run the film a few times. All I want is a smooth and quiet running film.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 23, 2006 07:43 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
One application should normally do the trick to quieten the film down and make the picture steady when projecting. Where is the noise coming from and is the projected picture steady.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted May 23, 2006 11:23 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The film in question is Predator and is the first brand new feature film i've bought as my wallet allowed it this time. There is nothing wrong with the projector. The noise is just because the film is dry or new. Other new films i've got sound the same. The projected picture is generally steady but could be steadier. I must admit i've had a bottle of cresclean for some months now but only started to use it. Ive always been too afraid before of over doing it.

This subject has been mentioned before but no one really says how much to put on the cloth. A smidgen, a few drops or a soaking. My bottle of cresclean has a pin hole in the top of it once you unscrew the cap, and I had to squease the bottle a lot to get any out. I phoned CHC and asked their advice and I was told to tip the bottle once on the cloth the back again and that is all I need, but I imagine that the top of their's was open and not like mine with a pin hole in it.

Is there a fine line between the right amount and too much?

Should I make a bigger hole in the bottle top?

When I applied on the second coat you could see the cleaner on the film this time as I wound it on my editor and it did project better.

Mabye its just because its Green film and in time it will be quiter and smoother.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 23, 2006 12:21 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham, this is just my humble opinion, but I use two or three drops of film cleaner/lubricant onto a spotless white 100% cotton hankerchief (make sure it has been washed first to get any starch out).

I gently wrap it around the print so that cleaner gets to both sides and holding it between my fingers with gentle pressure, wind fairly slowly for about 100-200ft or so, then move to a new, clean area of cloth, add a little more cleaner and go again.

When the reel is done, I usually rewind it in the same way but with a dry cloth to remove any excess cleaner and when I've used most clean areas of the cloth I get a new one and wash them all when done.

I've done it this way for years and never marked or had any undesirable effects on a print yet; certainly it is a bit tedious but I've found this process protects the print for many runs/years.

I've used Thermofilm, Derann LFC and Filmguard like this.

Like yourself, however, I have had prints that still run noisily or bounce a bit on projection when new but I've not known a single one that hasn't settled down over time as the print ages.

Just an aside, how do you find the print quality of "Predator"? I had a print a few years back and it was one of the sharpest I've seen.

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 330
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted May 23, 2006 02:00 PM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Congratulations on your purchase Graham, I too have heard the Preditor about the best print available on super 8 allthough I have never seen it.
I have 'well overdone it ' on the crestaclean, didn't do any damage to the print but stunk out the entire house when I ran the film through the projector. I use a spondon 16/8m film cleaner and if you fill the bath up at the bottom it well overdoes it as the film is actually dipped in it before too felt pads smear it off. What do others use in one of these I wonder?
I had on short film that even after the crestaclean still made a racket and jumped all over the place, as I was so bad I didn't have anything to loose I cleaned it with 'Armorall',as it dries on leaving a protective slippery film, ran perfect after that. Haven't tried it on anything else though.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 23, 2006 04:37 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, Do you buy this stuff at Halfords? Is there different types and which one do you use.

Cheers, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 03:42 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, intereseting about the film being literally "dipped" in cleaner. Seems that crestclean is ok, but I have used some readily available cleaners which can lift a certain amount of mag. soundtrack off the film (even when used in small quantities) and I would be wary of dipping film in those! As you say, seems crestclean is alright though.

The only other problem I've come across is that too much cleaner/lubricant can cause the soundtrack to wow as it slips between the capstan and pressure rollers.

Speaking of soundtracks, "Pretator" is a belter [Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 05:02 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I was going to ask that same question of the Armorall wipes.

You said "as it dries on leaving a protective slippery film" does this cause any wow due to slippage at the capstan. Is this a silicon based product?

Cheers, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted May 24, 2006 06:32 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh boy, here we go again... [Roll Eyes]

Armorall is nice for a quick lube on recent prints. Just let it dry and pass the film through a clean cloth afterwards to remove any trace of water. That will prevent wows. It really works.

But for long term protection, cleaning and lube, I also rely on FilmRenew. But there are other products out there, made for professionals.

Any hobbyist should try out these products and adopt the ones he feels confortable with.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 06:58 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Jean-Marc, I think you are absolutley right; the thing to do is experiment until you find what works best for you, which is all part of the fun of film collecting [Smile]

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted May 24, 2006 07:26 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
Thanks for all the reply's.
In response to rob's quesition, the print is Excellent with good colours and is very sharp. Ive only looked at the first 600' and I was too tired last night to lubricate and watch the rest. It has to be the best print of live action feature that I have in my collection, and I have lots. I did see Predator 4 or 5 years ago at a priviate screening and it looked awesome. I couldnt believe it was Super 8 and since then it has been on my wanted list. The feature originally came out in 1992 and is reviewed in July 92 of FFTC by Keith Wilton. When I saw the film several years ago, I dont know if this was a slightly better print quality, as I cant remember back exactly. I was told by derann that mine is on Kodak stock. I dont know what kodak stocks were used then and now. It is noticible that in 2 moments on the first 600' reel there is some negative damage but this is neglible.

In fact I bought my copy from last saturdays Ealing so if you went to Derann's stall and saw Predator, I now have it. I also got a generous discount.

Must apply Cresclean to the rest and watch it before splicing it up on 2x1200' reels.

Thanks

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 07:45 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
The earlier version as reviewed by Keith was probably on the Agfa polyester stock. All current releases and reprints are now on Kodak stock which does tend to be a bit more clattery in it's green state. A good lube and a few projections will settle it down. It will also tend to do this as it ages and dries out a bit on it's own.
Sorry if you are a bit tired of this subject Jean but I dont think we really finished it last time. I for one find that WD40 works really well but you can overdo it with the problem that you get slippage at the capstan. What I really want is a good silicon lube or wax as I have a print which has cinch marks on the base side of the print. I dont want to use a lube which will just dry out I want the small mark on the base to be filled in and last.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 09:09 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kev,
I really think you should give the ArmorAll Protectant Wipes a shot. It is essentially a suspension of silicone fluid in a water base. I have used it for years and it will not harm your films in any way, as application with the wipes ensures you are just putting down a very minmimal amount. The wipes are lintless, and you will find it does a pretty good job of minimizing light scratches and removing dust particles, as well as making your films more slippery. I cannot prove this, but I suspect that ArmorAll will also protect your films from drying out and shrinking, as it was designed to protect automobile plastics from hardening and cracking over years of exposure to heat and sun rays. It penetrates plastic materials and makes them more supple and flexible. I apply it using the projectors high speed rewind, first in one direction and then in the other. You will find that this will really smooth out the running of your films,will noticeably improve the quality of your sound tracks, and you will not be stinking up the house or risking any health hazards since Armor All contains no nasty volatile chemicals. Just make sure you get the kind which says 'Protectant Wipes' as Armorall also makes glass cleaning and leather cleaning wipes which may be different. Most Super markets and auto stores stock ArmorAll, which has been on the market for decades in the USA, and is a highly respected product. It has protected one of my Honda's dashboards from 15 years exposure to the Florida sun, it looks like new, which I think says it all.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 330
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted May 24, 2006 01:52 PM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

It was Armorall Protectorant in a non airosol type spray that I used. Yes I got it from Halfords, but with the intention of cleaning the inside of the car, not films. I just thought I'd give it a go as it happend to be at hand when I was having trouble with a Dolby Logo that I wanted to splice before a film I had just re-recorded. Certainly did the trick.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2006 02:53 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Paul and Mark. I will go out and get some at the weekend. I take it that even though it's water based it doesnt cause the film to stick to itself. Did you have any problems with tape splices coming undone?

Sounds like just what the doctor ordered [Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 03:35 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham, congratulations on purchasing one of the few A* Super 8 full length features. I would actually like to see how well the excellent print quality has held up now that a new Kodak stock is being used and Buck Labs have been replaced by Film Lab North.

Commando is the next title on your list. Then we'll set you off on the A* 'Scope titles.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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