8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » How many features at 18fps

- UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: How many features at 18fps
Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted December 31, 2006 10:59 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been pondering this question for some time. I'm talking about feature films released as 18fps. I remember watching a horror B picture "Midnight at Madame Tussauds" which was a Blackhawk print on 2 x 600ft reels (I think). After watching it you realised why this didnt catch on as any fast motion suffered. The only advantages I could think of is that the projector runs dead quiet and of course the feature takes less film making it cheaper.

The question is, Were there any other features (or cutdowns) released as 18fps?

 |  IP: Logged
John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 31, 2006 02:00 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
Columbia release some cartoons and 3 Stooges cut downs in regular 8 magnetic sound at 18 frames per second. Don't know of anyone else that went to the trouble of optically printing the 24 fps negative to 18 fps and re-recording sound in sync at the new speed.

John

 |  IP: Logged
Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted December 31, 2006 02:38 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

I remember that Blackhawk tried
this with Laurel and Hardy's
Dirty Work and Busy Bodies in the
8mm format.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted December 31, 2006 04:59 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Correct Micheal, as well as "Brats" and "The MUsic Box". I wouldn't be suprised if there were many titles.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 02, 2007 01:05 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Blackhawk catalog from 11/77 that reflect Busy Bodies and Dirty Work @18fps. My question would be "Why would they even bother"? I mean it couldn't possibly have been cost-effective for them. What they would save in raw film stock they would be spending in re-syncing the sound. Not to mention how movement would be retarded. Also, why only a few titles and not the whole damned catalog? I just never saw the point. Does anyone have or ever owned one of these re-modulated (ersatz AMERICOM) Blackhawk titles we speak of?

 |  IP: Logged
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted January 02, 2007 11:19 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I currently have "The Music Box", (Laurel and Hardy), which fits on a very full 400ft. reel. Actually it works pretty well on laurel and Hardy titles, as the dialogue could easily be substituted with titles.

I think it was just a current thingback then. That or perhaps they thought that people would like the films in that format. Strange though.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged
Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted January 02, 2007 04:36 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Blackhawk 18fps entries
was an attempt to offer sound
shorts at a considerable savings
when projected at 18fps.

To my understanding, there
was not any difference in
picture and sound.

Preferably, music plays better
at a faster rate on a tape
player or in a projector.

Blackhawk stated that they
were interested in marketing
this format with the consumer
in mind.

At the time, silver was a high
priced commodity, whereas
the Hunt Brothers were
cornering the Silver Market.

Perhaps this was also Blackhawks angle
with keeping print costs low?

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged
John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 02, 2007 10:19 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know about Blackhawk's resons, but Columbia brought out their 18 fps releases in conjunction with a sound adapter tht Agfa brought out for one of their 8mm projectors. That machine ran at 18 fps so Columbia was a source for commercial films for that projector.

Castle and AAP release in regular 8mm were 24fps. The Fairchild camera ran at 24 fps as well.

John

 |  IP: Logged
Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted January 02, 2007 10:26 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

This is very interesting info.
regarding Columbias venture with
films manufactured at 18fps.

Thank you.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged
Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted January 03, 2007 07:17 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks everyone for your responses. It seems that there was quite a few of these films released not only from Blackhawk but also from Columbia. However I'm glad this method didnt catch on big time.

 |  IP: Logged
Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted January 03, 2007 09:39 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK some of the early silent films have been shot at approx. 16fps... Hence releasing them at 18fps (with and without some piano as a soundtrack) would make sense.

 |  IP: Logged
Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006

- posted January 03, 2007 05:57 PM      Profile for Timothy Ramzyk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blackhawk put those "Enchanted Studio" reels out at 18fps. but I'm pretty sure it reflected how they were shot, and it was only music on the track.

 |  IP: Logged
Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted January 03, 2007 05:59 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just remembered,
that I also have a scored Super 8mm
print of the Great Train Robbery.

It runs best at 18fps., becuase at
24fps, the quick movement action
is too fast and difficult to
follow.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 03, 2007 06:23 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have "Two Tars" with a music track. It seems that both the action and music seem right only at 24 FPS.

Blackhawk's Great Train Robbery came in two versions (emulsion-wise, at least) There is the straight Black and White and the one with the hand colorised sections (early special effects: - oooooooh!). The straight black and whites look better now because the colorised ones are often red faded.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged
Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted January 04, 2007 08:36 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found at times
that most silent films,
post 1925 seem to play
better at 24fps.

Michael

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2