8mm Forum: A question for Eumig owners -- Please Help

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Topic: A question for Eumig owners -- Please Help

Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted July 27, 2011 12:23 AM

My newly acquired Eumig S928 GL runs fast at the 24 fps setting. Even though this model has an adjustable speed control I am thinking that it should not be doing this. In other words, varying the speed should only be between 24 & 18 fps. Otherwise how could you get an accurate 24 fps for recording? Am I correct in thinking this? I know some of you own this model so when the speed knob is turned to 24 is it spot on? I am thinking my machine needs to be worked on. If it does and I cannot find a serviceman for it then I am going to have to see if I can return it to the seller. Hopefully I can get this issue resolved so that I can use the projector for recording purposes.

Joe B.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted July 27, 2011 02:09 AM

This range of projectors uses an updated version of the (in?)famous "ball and disc" drive of earlier Eumig projectors. The concept is that a "ball" (in this case a steel disc)on the motor shaft bears on a rubber coated "disc" to provide a reduction gear ratio. The speed control knob moves the ball along the disc radius so that this ratio, and hence the speed, is variable.
In this series, the ball (disc) is mounted on a cam follower, which bears on a cam mounted on the speed control shaft. If you have no variation, then there are three possibilities...
1. The knob is not turning the cam,
2. The follower is stuck so that it cannot follow the cam,or
3. The disc (ball) is stuck on the shaft so that the follower cannot follow the cam.

By removing the front panel of the machine you should be able to observe the action. You certainly can in my S934.
The speed you currently have depends on where the ball (disc) was positioned when the movement failed; it could be anything between 18 and 24 fps, or even outside these limits if the follower is not engaging and the ball (disc) has crept along the motor shaft. When the control was set up in the factory the linkage would have been set to provide a pretty accurate range of 18 to 24 fps at the two limits. If the linkage has at any time been tampered with those settings could be different.
There are many experienced repairers world-wide who can help; I have no particular knowledge of those in the US. However, if you have reasonable mechanical skill, the above description may assist you in fixing the problem yourself. That's how I gained my experience of these excellent machines.
Martin

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Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted July 27, 2011 02:58 AM

Joe. All you need to do is..
1:Remove the front cover
2:Full off (towards you) the speed contol knob
3:You will then see what looks like a white nut. You can turn this to set the speed to 24fps
4: Replace the speed control knob.

Many people alter the white nut if the projector has been used for telecine.

[Wink]

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted July 27, 2011 03:38 AM

I can vary the speed. But when the knob it turned all the way to 24 fps everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse. I want the speed at 24 when the knob is turned all the way to it and 18 fps when it is turned all the way in the other direction. If I adjust per Lee's directions, how will I know when the speed is EXACTLY 24 fps? The other thing that I have observed is that one of the rubber drive rings that contacts the motor shaft now has wear rings on it while the opposite rubber ring does not. I am guessing the increased speed did it [Mad]

I am looking into sending it out for service and should hear from the repairman shortly. But if its going to cost me a lot of $ then I am going to try and get a partial refund from the seller. If I can't get this machine back to how it originally was I will just rely on my Elmo which will be going out for repair in the near future. This machine may be more trouble than its worth but I am going to try and save it!

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted July 27, 2011 03:55 AM

My post was a general reply aimed at all people with problems on this type of drive.
For your particular problem, Lee's answer is specifically correct.
I suggest that you play a film with a well known piece of music on it, and adjust for the correct pitch with the knob turned to the 24 fps stop.
This will be close enough for ALL practical purposes; even some pre-recorded films may be slightly off 24 fps anyway. However, anything YOU record at that setting will play back correctly. If you want an exact 24 fps, try a piece leader with two marks on it at 96 frames spacing and time it with a stopwatch, adjusting as required to 4 seconds playing time. A simple and fairly obvious solution!
The marks on the rubber disc can usually be ignored as long as they do not affect the performance. Some people sand the discs to remove them (see other posts on the Forum). One disc is marked more than the other because one disc is for Forward and the other for Reverse.
Or... give up ans seek a refund!

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Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted July 27, 2011 04:11 AM

Years ago I wanted a simple and accurate way of setting the speed on a Eumig 800 series projector and this is what I did.

1: Put about 6ft of old film in a diluted bucket of bleach overnight to remove emulsion
2: Hang on washing line next day to dry
3: Thread the clear film into the projector and cut to length to make a full loop
4: Then I marked every 24th or 18th frame with a X
5: Thread the film and splice it making a clean cut at X
6: Put a stop watch on the wall and project the clear film altering the projectors speed until the X matches each second on the stop watch.

I’ve been using the same two loops now for what must be 30 plus years and it’s a quick and simple way to accurately set the speed for 18 and 24fps.
Happy days!

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Mark L Barton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 621
From: Bristol, South Glos, England
Registered: Mar 2009

posted July 27, 2011 04:56 AM

Now thats genius Lee! I'm making a timing loop as I type (and its getting messy) Cheers

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 27, 2011 07:11 AM

Is it possible this machine is set up for 50Hz and the motor is running fast because it is operating on 60?

60Hz/50Hzx24FPS=28.8FPS

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

posted July 27, 2011 07:26 AM

I agree with Steve.
Sound like this needs the toothed drive belt moved to the next pulley to restore the correct sound speed.

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

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[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted July 27, 2011 07:57 AM

I too, agree with the last two posts.

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Maurizio

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